Sixth-grader's science project blows marine biologists out of the water...

Discussion in 'Techforge' started by garamet, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,917
    ...in a manner of speaking:

    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    35,189
    Location:
    Someplace high and cold
    Ratings:
    +36,701
    Not to make too great a leap of logic here, but it's stuff like this that convinces me that we'll get FTL this exact same way. All the graybeards will be telling each other it's impossible and some grad student will look at the thing with new eyes and say "Hey, any of you guys notice this?"
    • Agree Agree x 7
  3. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,701
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +156,684
    And immediately after the grad student wins the Galactic Prize for Extreme Cleverness, he'll be lynched by the grey beards because they'll realize that the one thing they can't stand is a smartass.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    13,032
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Ratings:
    +8,290
    Gee and the FWC and biologists haven't figured this out yet?
  5. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    It's not exactly unheard of for a fish species to be capable of living in both salt and fresh water.

    [​IMG]

    Why did it take a 13 year old to ask this question?
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    Because all the grownups got stuck doing paperwork instead of getting to do real science. :garamet:
    • Agree Agree x 5
  7. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Location:
    Dead and Loving It
    Ratings:
    +13,964
    The more interesting question is do lionfish avoid fresh water? And, what is the tolerance of saltwater fish to fresh water environments in general?

    We know they taste good (but that earned me a disqualification in my science fair).
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    Plus, as imperfect humans, we tend to ignore the details of that which we feel has been well established.
  9. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,701
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +156,684
    How many years had humans been staring at things hitting the ground before Newton asked, "I wonder why things fall?" We get "stuck" in seeing things as they are, and don't think to question them. Even worse, the people who ask questions are often mocked as being ignorant. Even being an "expert" in your field isn't enough to protect you. Ignaz Semmelweis was the first doctor to figure out that hand washing was key to saving lives in a hospital environment. He reduced mortality amongst women who'd given birth in a hospital from 35% to less than 1%. Did he get a medal? Did his colleagues praise him for his efforts? No. They had him committed to an insane asylum where he was promptly murdered by the staff.

    Arizona State University is trying something radical to breakthrough the stodgy nature that can infect the sciences. They have a cancer research center staffed by oncologists and physicists. The idea being, that since the physicists don't know anything about cancer, they can ask the kinds of questions that the oncologists wouldn't think to ask. Additionally, since the physicists all have advanced degrees in a hard subject, the oncologists can't look at the physicist after he asks them a question and respond with, "Boy, you're stupid." the oncologist knows that the physicist is a smart guy, so he's got to give him a real answer.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  10. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    I'd like that gig. I have an advanced degree in geology, does that count as a hard subject? Plus I'm really good at asking dumb questions.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    Yes geologist, rocks are a hard subject. Okay except sandstone, you can crumble that by hand for the most part.
    I'll bet your favorite movie is Rocky.
    I would ask you to challenge the status quo, but I don't think you have the stones.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,701
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +156,684
    There's a really good argument that all branches of science should have programs like this. (And a similar one involving the arts and sciences mixing together.) You can listen to a lecture here by one of the scientists involved in setting up the program. If you can't join theirs, perhaps you can use the arguments they made for starting the program to get one where you work.

    One of the interesting things that Dr. Davis talks about that has come out of the program, is that its causing them to rethink what cancer actually is. Something that they've noticed is that tumors don't like oxygen, and this has Davis wondering if what's going on is that when DNA goes crazy and becomes cancer, if it isn't really just ancient DNA tied to the anaerobic organisms which first formed on Earth being switched on by mistake.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    Dude! That is a good theory. We didn't always have oxygen here on Earth. This is why I get pissed when "the experts" say "sure primitive life might exist on other planets, but not intelligent life."
    WTF? Obviously life can exist under a wide variety of conditions. True, complex life didn't develop until oxygen came on the scene here on Earth. But who is to say that with all the trillions of plants that might harbor life our way is the only way? It's the height of arrogance.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,627
  15. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Whoops! I'm surprised they thought they could get away with it.
  16. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  17. Will Power

    Will Power If you only knew the irony of my name.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    6,444
    Location:
    On one of the coasts!
    Ratings:
    +2,335
    Hey, I'm with you here! It's been my fanciful, wishful thinking (I know:( ) that FTL & Interstellar Travel will turn out to have been an immense Rube Goldberg Contraption! Astrohysicists discover some previously "hidden" basic tenet of the Universe, & it hitting them:

    "Had we known THIS back in 1969, Apollo 11 could've gone to α Centauri & back in ~the same time it took to go to the Moon & back. And it was SO OBVIOUS all along, "hiding" in plain sight:("

    [​IMG]
  18. Prufrock

    Prufrock Disturbing the Universe

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    6,847
    Ratings:
    +3,446
    Yup.

    In college when I was doing animal testing, we had to jump through so many hoops to prove that a proposed experiment wouldn't harm the animal or that any harm would be worthwhile. Adjusting saltwater fish to fresher water probably wouldn't fly, or else it would take several months and several higher-ups' signoffs to get permission.
  19. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,917
  20. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Location:
    Dead and Loving It
    Ratings:
    +13,964
    Move on, nothing to see here: 6th grader built on previous research, cited the earlier research in her project, and was in turn cited in the other researchers' later work. Scientific method and cooperation at its finest. The media frenzy, not so much.

    Here's a blog from Zack Jud's university advisor that chronicles the research done by all parties. The media is getting this one wrong.

    ...the core of most of the media stories are valid (although I can’t proof all of them – there have obviously been so many). A young student did a really cool science project. It related closely to, and facilitated, a bunch of other important findings about lionfish. I am glad tens of thousands of people now know about Zack’s research and Lauren’s project that never would have otherwise. But it is unfortunate how it played out in such a manner over the last few weeks.​
    • Agree Agree x 4
  21. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    Cool find! I retract my previous comment.
    • Agree Agree x 2