Star Trek: Strange New Worlds [SPOILERS]

Fucking Kurtzman! It's all his fault!

Yeah, but not every viewer requires that level of hand holding.

I had a mental image of Starfleet excitedly contacting the Vulcan Science Directorate about it and being told that the VSD had already added the moon to their very lengthy to-do list but had no plans to explore it immediately, at which point Starfleet asked the Vulcans for permission to explore it sooner and the Vulcans said they didn't care one way or the other.

Hand holding?
Trust?

Do you even know what a story is? If you were serving dinner to a person you know is vegetarian and a non-drinker, and you know taht person recently had … say a head injury … s/he gets to your house .. and what? you offer them a drink and bacon?

BTW, you hit dumb on the wrong post. Pretty sure that was meant for the post above mine. Same dumbass talking about trusting a character from a story …

Why Spock is vegetarian matters to me in terms of whether Pike speaks up.

If Spock is vegetarian because he deems meat cultivation or consumption illogical, his being human may make sense for him to abandon the strict observance of that logic. In which case, no particular reason why Pike should care that Spock is abandoning vegetarianism, IMO.

If Spock is vegetarian because he (and Vulcans) find the smell/taste/something else of meat repulsive, Spock's being 100 percent human may make sense for him to eat meat with the shift in biology. In which case, no particular reason why Pike should care that Spock is abandoning vegetarianism, IMO.

If Spock is vegetarian because meat eating is not good biologically for Vulcans, then Spock's being 100 percent human changes that, and in which case there's no particular reason why Pike should care that Spock is abandoning vegetarianism, IMO.

If, on the other hand, Spock is vegetarian because he has an ethical belief that consuming meat is morally wrong, his change in biology should not change his ethics, and Pike has more of an obligation to say or do something before his friend allows the delicious smell of bacon to compromise his ethics, IMO.

Spock eats meat in "All Our Yesterdays" and is ethically disgusted with himself.
Just sayin.

You really want attention today, don't you?

I googled "Spock drinking alcohol," this was the first result:

Vulcans and alcohol are treated quite inconsistently throughout the whole franchise. TOS says that Vulcans mostly abstain from drinking, although, as others have pointed out here, Spock does partake of the Saurian brandy offered by Flint in Requiem for Methuselah.

Spock also willingly eats meat without hesitation in All Our Yesterdays when there's no other food available, but later freaks out when he realizes he's enjoying it, because he associates that enjoyment with old-timey Vulcan barbarism.

So it's established in TOS that Spock is fine with drinking alcohol, and it's established in TOS that Spock is fine with eating meat in a pinch so long as it doesn't make him feel anything.

Do you think Pike is so stupid and inattentive that he wouldn't have figured out both of those things? He wouldn't have noticed what Spock does and doesn't do in social settings and researched it or asked him why? The guy's preparing handmade Vulcan snacks for Spock's in-laws, you think he doesn't care to learn about Spocks boundaries, and what's a moral issue and what's just force of habit?

Come on, man.

Like 14thDoc said, the disgust isn't so much from the actual meat eating or the ethics of vegetarianism, but from the thought that he's reverting to a more primitive mindset of getting pleasure from eating that meat. He's concerned that he's losing his logical mindset from being stuck in the past since -- of course -- being in a past time would translate your mind to share the beliefs and feelings of those of your race from that time.

Who knows, maybe the meat was just really , really good.

But if you accept the events of SNW as canon, then Spock's revulsion at feeling pleasure from eating meat in AOY could be because it reminded him so much of the time he felt pleasure from eating meat when he was a full human. TOS Spock is much less comfortable with his human side than SNW Spock, so anything that made him feel human would likely be very upsetting. Maybe he lied about the primitive Vulcan mindset angle because the truth was too disturbing to admit out loud.

Y'know what? I'm going with that one.

I always took "my father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol" to mean that it just doesn't have an intoxicating effect on them. There's no reason they can't drink it; they just don't.

Did they ever say what Zarabeth killed to make the meat?
It looked like pot roast.
Trying to think what arctic animal has beefy looking meat.
Polar bear? Penguin? Seal?

Vulcans don't lie.

Wouldn't logic dictate poisoning your body intentionally is bad?

"I exaggerated." Spock.

But if it doesn't intoxicate them, there's also a good chance it isn't a poison to them.

McCoy: "Damn Vulcan physiology!"

Vulcans have a great PR agency. They lie when it is logical to do so.

A partial list of Spock's lies:

• Telling an alien that there was an insect crawling on him prior to nerve-pinching him in A Taste of Armageddon
• Pretending to be human who had an accident happen to his ears and numerous associated lies about his radio hobby in City on the Edge of Forever
• Pretending to be a merchant in Errand of Mercy
• Using the "Vulcan Death Grip" and all the ploys he used to help Kirk steal the cloaking device in the Enterprise Incident
• Pretending that Kirk had ordered the ship to go to Talos IV in The Menagerie

You would just let your friend imbibe after a serious accident without any thought that once they’re recovered they may not appreciate that you, who was not injured, didn’t even attempt to intervene? That you just let it happen?

Not really. Just responded to some dumbass on the internet who said something so wildly idiotic I couldn't help but call him out on it.

In the scene in question. ok. Are you with me? not 1967. Strange New Worlds in 2023. In that scene, Pike clearly is looking at Spock in shock and confusion as Spock eats bacon and drinks ... well, like a human. I mean .., acting out and behaving a little different was expected. Heck, even Spock's reaction to bacon and alcohol was expected. But, the actor, portraying the character you trust, is clearly thinking that isn't normal. and just because the writers didn't take that into account, the actor did.

What I personally would do might depend on any of a half-dozen factors (what kind of friendship are we talking? what kind of accident and what did it affect of the friend? how much "imbibing" are we talking about? Do I have reason to think that drinking will negatively interact with whatever meds he's on? Does the friend not drink generally? If so, what is the reason for their not drinking? etc.)

What I personally would do is largely irrelevant to the issue of whether Pike should have stepped in and said "But you're vegetarian, Spock, you're sure you want that bacon? If you ever change back to half-Vulcan, which we don't know if we can presently arrange, you may regret it!"

I think it's fair for Pike to say despite the change in personality, Spock is a grown person able to make his own decisions about his eating habits, however right or wrong.

So, basically, you'd just let your friend engage in activities you know he wouldn't normally be comfortable with.

Sure. He's a grown man.

Guess I didn't realize how very good my friends are in that they would watch out for me if I were ever in a similar situation.

You know what *is* intoxicating to Vulcans?

Chocolate.

Having him chomp down on that when he couldn't before would've been equally funny and a bit more creative that LOL BACON HURR.

Again, it depends on the circumstances. It just so happens one of my brothers does not drink just because he doesn't and hasn't. If that brother had an accident of any sort and said "Man, I think I'll have a beer." I might be like, "You sure?" Or I might not say anything. He's a grown-ass man and can decide he wants to have a beer.

If I had a friend who was in AA, and he got a few bumps and bruises in a fender bender and wanted a drink, I would probably be pretty vocal that he should not throw away years of sobriety over that. If the same friend from AA lost a limb in the accident and wanted to have a drink, I might be less likely to.

I think if you ask your friends a similar question in the abstract, they probably won't all say "Of course I would always stop the person from having a drink."

You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

If you have a friend who is half human and half vulcan and you know that person has a long history of conforming to Vulcan attitudes regarding eating meat and drinking alcoholic beverages and that friend gets into some sort of weird accident in which he is then left only with his human self, THEN that friend suddenly starts eating meat and drinking like he's at a frat party - are you or are you not going to say something?

1. I feel like you're projecting your own issues with substances here. I'm sorry this episode triggered you, but you're reading too much into it.

2. Spock was perfectly fine (albeit completely human) after the accident, so much so that M'Benga had no problem clearing him to return to duty. He might have laughed a little too hard at times and lost his temper at Kirk (reasonable) a bit, but nothing suggested his judgment was impaired or that he was completely unable to control himself if he wanted to. He didn't get physical with Chapel or anyone else until he was half-Vulcan again, despite almost certainly experiencing arousal when he was a human. If he willingly ate a bunch of bacon, it wasn't a act that would have normally violated his moral code. He didn't do anything else that violated his moral code while he was human.

I ... wow. I didn't realize this was such a hot topic for you. I mean, I just thought you were channeling Flashlight with all the dumb reps.

Dude. Calm down. Have a cup of tea. We're discussing friendship here and how far one thinks they should allow a friend to topple.

Unlike Siri, I'm not sorry you have no friends. I can clearly see why.

Again, there's no point in personalizing it. Even if I absolutely would say something to my newly human friend, that doesn't mean it's out-of-character, or immoral or otherwise problematic for Pike to not say or do something.

FWIW, I could see a range of reactions from the same sort of quiet amusement that Pike seemed to have, to the equivalent of the Spock eyebrow raise, to verbally saying "Really?" or something similar, to "But Spock, you're a vegetarian...you might regret this meat eating." depending on the circumstances as I said above.

Anyway, I guarantee at this point we have thought more about this slice of the topic than the actual writers did and so I'll call horse.

There was a B-movie in the 90's called "Flesh Eating Mothers".
It goes exactly where you think.
A virus makes moms eat their babies and toddlers.
Fucked up part, is the heroes find the cure at the end, and the moms have to live with what they did.
Jesus, imagine pushing out your 2-days-later turd knowing that's kid.


Anyway, I think Spock would have a much easier time recovering from a fucking cheeseburger.

I dunno, writers are fuckin' nerds, and I'm guessing Star Trek writers are even moreso. I'd like to imagine there being 3am screaming matches over whether or not Jim Kirk would ever eat a hotdog without condiments, and if that Kirk being from an alternate timeline makes a difference.

very TNG today