Student Debt Cancellation

We'll see. Ed and I have an idea. And I will hurt you for that boomer/old crack.

but you're not diverting the higher education trolley. It's going to kill more students unless you change loan rules.

Yes, hence why part of Biden's platform is to have free public college for many students. It's not a perfect plan, and without the senate it's probably doomed, but what they want to do isn't just a once off forgiveness and then let the whole thing rebuild.

It’s more akin to bailing out the big banks that gave out loans to people that they knew they couldn’t pay back and then doing nothing to prevent the banks from going right to doing what they were doing. That’s what canceling student debt would do. These colleges have no incentive to lower their rates after the student loan debt is canceled. They’re not going to change their behavior and neither will the banks so they just do it all over again. Then you just have to bail out student loans all over again.

That’s actually pretty low for med school loans. The average student loan debt for med school students is almost $250k, and there are a lot of people coming from wealthy families pulling that average down. 300-400k is quite common. Hope you wanted to be a dermatologist and not a pediatrician!

Fair enough, I was just spitballing.

Some cynical folks might say that's the whole reason behind the political desire to forgive the loans.

You mean like appealing to a certain voting block?

Or Europe. Apparently, some European nations allow even foreign students to attend for basically nothing.

Who would have standing to challenge it with a lawsuit?

I'm on the fence about student loan cancellation entirely, but I think some degree of debt forgiveness would be good.

I do think that public universities shouldn't cost so much. California's public universities used to have no tuition for residents (with nominal administrative fees), which I think we should go back to. A public university shouldn't cost tens of thousands dollars to get a degree.

Among the long list of wrongs committed by Reagan, when he was governor of California he helped cut back state funding for public universities, while also pushing hard for charging tuition to students. It's no surprise that tuition California's public universities skyrocketed after that.

College students shouldn't have to pay more than a nominal amount for public universities, and it certainly shouldn't be more than what they spend on housing, books, etc. If they want to pay for private universities, that's fine. Hell, tuition-less public universities could even help reduce the price of private university tuition.

This is ancient history, but public universities in NY (two-year AND four-year) used to be free. There was a nominal registration fee of about $50, and that was it. The graduates of CCNY alone (dare me to cite SUNY, I dare ya!) included Nobel Laureates, Rhodes Scholars, a Supreme Court justice, scientists, and Evul Soshulists such as Bernie Sanders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_City_College_of_New_York_alumni

Which is why the GOP/conservatives loathe them. Imagine edumacating the masses! What's next? Actual equality instead of "You were born poor. You'll die poor. You're obviously inferior to those of us who inherited money and connections. But vote for us so you can buy into the delusion that someday you'll be just as rich as us!"?

OMG, WE CAN'T HAVE THAT! Next thing you know, people will be judged by their accomplishments, not because Daddy left them millions! How will we ever elect a Trump again?

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton rose above poverty and proved the Privileged 1% wrong. Obama? With all of those disadvantages, how DARE he (unless, of course we're showcasing the Faithful Minorities like Clarence Thomas)?

The Kochs and the Trumpanistas are mystified and frightened. We need to keep them that way. Fuck 'em all.

Yes.

I finished school with about 260,000 dollars worth of student loans. That was just the principal.

I did work for the Indian Health Service but not long enough to qualify for the loan repayment.

However I went on to work for a community clinic that offered a similar loan repayment program. In total I received about 105,000 dollars.

The rest of the principal I paid off myself along with 10 years of interest payments. I graduated in 2008. I will finally be debt free next year.

In hindsight it was not worth it. But I’m one of the lucky ones. I’m not living in luxury by any means but I am comfortable and I’ve saved up a lot and invested a lot and can possibly retire early or do something else with my life. I don’t need/want an expensive car/house/family so it worked out ok for me.

I’m actually in a position where I was able to help a friend out and pay for a semester of her medical school tuition. She can pay me back after she becomes a doctor.

I gave you a "winner" rep, but I wanted to give you a "thank you" and a "love" as well. The "I got mine and fuck the rest of you" mob will never understand.

Do you suggest that they are over-charging because the money is "there"? Will it suddenly become cheaper to get a degree if the finance for these is left to private lenders? Or will those without money merely be deprived of educational opportunity?

That last statement is blatantly false. You cannot receive that kind of education at community colleges or public libraries. Your solution is that this kind of knowledge is reserved for the rich, and will likely more or less die out altogether in the United States. That's a coherent position to take; but don't pretend it's something it's not.

As the saying goes, society grows great when old men can pay to buy fully grown trees from elsewhere because if you can't benefit personally why the fuck would you plant one.

They are overcharging because of market forces with easily available student loans.

The funding has shifted from the state to student's hands.

Students want posh campuses replete with rec centers and sports.

To attract students, schools build giant recreation facilities, expensive private-room dorms, and fund ridiculous sports. To pay for these, they implement fees as high as tuition.

The students don't exercise good purchasing judgement, because they're stupid. Parents support their dumb kids' decisions, "My Johnnie is going to college!!!!" And the loans are low interest and easy to get.

A large percentage don't graduate. Stupid is as stupid does. Schools aggressively market to new students to fill their rosters and get the funds they need to support the rec centers and stupid sports.

Rinse and repeat.

You seem a little touchy. My "you should be ashamed" comment was directed towards funding your kids' college, not the "parental lottery." You can't help it if your parents planned well (except for the one time).

Doesn't that fact alone tell you something?

His parents didn't plan that well. If they did, he wouldn't exist in the first place.

Aw, someone's just had the contraception lesson of sex ed?

The 1% need drones. Give every worthy American an education, and who will wipe their asses when their overindulgent lifestyles betray them?

Maybe one of our resident lawyers can speak to this better than I can, but doesn't a person need to have standing in order to bring a lawsuit?

And isn't "standing" generally defined as being in some way harmed by the action being challenged?

If that is how it works, and if my incomplete knowledge of our legal system isn't leading me astray, then I wonder how exactly anyone would claim to be harmed by this.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Since about 2010 or so, anyone in TN who wanted to go to college could do so for free, provided they went to a state school and were willing to fill out the necessary forms. This is thanks to the state lottery. Other states have similar programs.

Now, back in the Dark Ages of the late 80s, when I went to college, the school I attended had something like a $50 fee tacked on to our tuition to pay for facilities being built for alumni. This pissed a lot of us off because none of us intended to stay in that town after graduation, so those facilities were useless to us. Meanwhile, this same school was in danger of losing its accreditation because they weren't funding the library properly.

Yeah, sportsing can be a drag on a university's finances but it's not necessarily the choice of the students where that money is being spent. (One guy I knew in high school went to a college that had a "free floppy disc" night to get people to show up to the football games. I might be wrong, but I doubt if that university was spending big bucks on their athletic programs.)

I have been. Because it annoys me. And that causes me to lose sleep. And because I lose sleep, I post stupid less brilliant things on Wordforge, which causes people to give me negreps, which hurts my self-esteeem.

So as an injured party, and as an amicus courtimus (or whatever that fancy-schmancy phrase is them lawyer guys use), I'm gonna sue!

Maybe I can get Rudy Giuliani to handle the case for me. He would seem to be just the right lawyer for this kind of thing! He can make up dig out incriminating facts like no one you ever saw.

Consider my rep support for your cause.

If we concede that that is the case at least a significant proportion of the time, it still doesn't negate the fact that without the loans, poor people will be denied access.

So, while it's fair to be wary of a bloated "educational establishment" sucking up this kind of indirect subsidy, I'd say that some alternative solution is called for if one is against either the loans being given or against writing them off.