Sutherland Springs, TX church shooting

Do you have a problem with people privately selling their property?

 

Not as long as they aren't breaking any laws...such as selling prescription drugs, alcohol to children, etc.

 

Here's what Madison said about the militia.

"The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it."
- James Madison, January 29, 1788
Source: The Federalist #46

 

Then by that reasoning a lot of people aren’t.

 

So after every shooting @Paladin has to school gun grabbing idiots like @steve2^4 and go around in circles over the second amendment because they don't bother to educate themselves, is that what we've learned from all of this?

 

Flowery prose was the thing back then.

 

We've gone from that to stupid tweets from Trump.

 

It's not so bad. I've learned the boundary of 2nd amendment proponents includes fully automatic weapons thus increasing my resolve.

 

Probably. What's your point?

 

Sorry, my nomenclature isn't precise: I should have said, "Non semi-automatic." English is a bitch. Still, that leaves room for fully-automatic weapons. I think you understand my intent.

As demonstrated in recent mass-murders, semi-automatics have the unfortunate ability to be converted into fully automatic weapons. Used as is by the original perp in this thread, they are an unnecessary danger to the public and provide no real-world personal defense. Increased performance for hunting is not a valid argument for anything except deer should be armed.

 

My takeaway from this thread is: people really fucking like guns.

 

Meh. It's a hobby.

 

Hobbies: Collecting stamps, bird-watching, organizing armed resistance to tyrannical governments

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/09/sutherland-springs-shooting-church-demolition/

Yay, Gunz!

 

I completely understand why they need to tear that place down, but if it were my building I would leave it up. Then I'd send people who want to cut mental health services on tours through the building.

 

I love how this reasoning ignores the entire context and first half of the 2nd Amendment. You keep harping on the text of the amendment itself, but your interpretation casually ignores the militia component. That's the first clause of the 2nd Amendment, shouldn't placing it first give it more weight? Or did the writers just accidentally put it in there?

 

The courts have been casually ignoring the militia component for years now.

 

That's a bald-faced lie.

What the heck do you think the militia WAS in the 1700's? What do you think it was for? Who do you think it answered to?

Everything we do and say about the Second Amendment totally revolves around the 18th Century concept of the militia.

You guys have absolute blinders on.

 

This is patently ridiculous. It's like you guys are ignoring everything said or done on purpose to advance an agenda or something.

 

Which is why gun nuts can never be trusted or believed on this topic. They will lie and ignore the rest of the sentence. Every single time.

 

Would the United States government raise a militia in 2017? Would the United States military accept an armed incursion by a militia in 2017? We know the answer to that one.

The amendment is antiquated. They should just change it to 'citizens have the right to bear arms in personal self-defense' or whatever.

 

"Because I like to go out to dinner, I have a car."
Does having a car require that you go out to dinner? Can you only go out to dinner if you have a car?

The opening clause is an explanation of a reason that Madison thought people should remain armed. Using flowery prose.
"Because a militia may or may not be needed some day, the right of the people to keep and bear arms may not be infringed."
Neither phrase is contingent upon the other.

 

Sez the guy who seems to think he's living in the 18th century...

 

I wouldn't argue with that. The flowery prose obviously gets in the way of understanding.

 

Stupid sexy Founders.

 

It's OK folks, according to Rush Limbaugh these mass shootings are all down to daycare taking kids away from moms and preventing proper parenting, and something something Hillary Clinton.

http://crooksandliars.com/2017/11/rush-limbaugh-blames-mass-shootings-day

So, keep those guns! In fact, buy more in case the godless libs come to put your kids in a ballpit!

 

Some states have honest to goodness official civilian militias. They get to wear uniforms and everything.

 

I forget what I did but I'm actually an officer in the Alabama State Militia. And I got the certificate BEFORE my military service so it wasn't that.

 

Maybe you sold a lot of popcorn?

 

Slinging popcorn is no fucking joke. Not like those delicious fucking cookies that sell themselves.