That whole UVA fraternity rape thing...

Just because it didn't happen in this universe doesn't mean it didn't happen in some other one, and that's what should concern us. It's the seriousness of the charge, and the culture where this kind of thing could happen, given a different reality.

And, of course, we get the same brain dead mantra from the social justice warriors as they start the hashtag IStandByJackie. It doesn't matter to them that she lied and made the whole thing up, bothering to investigate claims to see if they are factually true or not will only discourage women from coming forward, no charges should ever be brought for slanderous or libel attacks on men, and if you don't automatically and unquestionably believe every rape claim no matter how dubious then you are pro-rape.

This is how disconnected from reality and how much of a lynch mob the social justice warriors have become. It doesn't matter if the rape claim was all a pack of lies... lynch them anyway.

http://time.com/3621291/istandwithjackie-uva-rape/

Many people saw this type of bull shit "arguments" during gamergate. The same social justice warriors leveled the same sort of bullshit at anyone who dared question them. "Disagree with me? THEN YOU ARE PRO RAPE AND PROBABLY A RAPIST!!!!!!"

Facts don't matter to some people. Their agenda is allthat matters to them even if the facts don't support it.

Let's not get carried away here. This has nothing to do with gamer gate. Assholes making threats are still assholes making threats. Jackie's deception does not change what is.

Except the vast, vast, vast majority made no threats yet the lying social justice warriors used that as an excuse to ignore real arguments and made the same sort of fact free nonsense claims as they're doing now. So, yes, they do seem intricately linked to me especially since Rolling Stone probably went out to dig up a rape story because gamergate made claims of violence against women the cause dejour. Facts didn't matter, who got hurt or wrongfully maleigned didn't matter, as long as Roing Stone and the social justice warriors got their graphic fictional story.

See, when you write something like that, I have to question whether you've even read anything about gamer gate except perhaps in places like 4chan. In our own thread, we have people repeatedly telling you that we are not saying that. It is possible to say that there are some rotten apples in the barrel without tainting all of them. Likewise, these #istandwithjackie folks seem to miss the fact that one false claim does not make most people more or less likely to accept the next claim. You are behaving regarding gamer gate in the exact same fashion as these Jackie defenders.

There's a cute Twitchy post about a feminist who Tweeted:

I can't state this more emphatically: If Jackie's story is partially or wholly untrue, it doesn't validate the reasons for disbelieving her.

"Discrepancies" is all it takes to convince most of the world Jackie is a liar. Welcome to the rape culture.

If the threshold for reporting on rape is 100% verifiable facts, there's going to be a lot less reporting on rape. And there's the point.

A beat down ensued.

Gul, I'd say I have read a lot on gamergate and not just the summaries posted in partisan websites as so many here have. In fact, a large proportion of the claims made by the social justice warriors really were that stupid. That is why so many repeat them; so they can highlight just how irrational and nonsensical they are. Oh, and, yes, we're getting the same sort of illogical nonsense out of the social justice warriors on this topic. It is their default tactic which they rinse and repeat over and over again and it is as untrue and illogical now as it was then.

Yeah, we don't want to get too carried away here. Do we know if she was raped? No. Doesn't mean she wasn't. Rolling Stone did no favors to her or any other rape victims here, in their lust for scandal they've cried wolf, giving ammo to anyone looking to distract from legitimate crimes in their future.

But the bar for ruining someone's life with a rape claim should be pretty damn high.

So, lying about a party that didn't happen, and pointing out men who weren't even in the country on the night the attack supposedly happened are "discrepencies."



And Jackie's fucking lies do nothing but undermine a cause that women have fought tooth and nail to make headway in. Studies have shown that women make false rape reports with the same frequency of any other crime, but shit like this and the Duke lacrosse case throws shades on every other case.

Yep, makes it that much easier to turn a blind eye toward Cosby's accusers, just as an example. And that is the fear, which is certainly reasonable, and probably explains why some will continue to rally around "Jackie."

Perhaps the post-modernist idea that "truth" is just a matter of competing cultural perspectives has outstayed its usefulness and is damaging the brand.

I'm beginning to suspect the entire post-modernist movement was really a long dragged out elaborate dadaist troll.

It's not about facts, it's about feels.

And just to illustrate how disconnected you are, 4chan has in fact banned all discussion about anything related to gamergate and is in fact anti-gamergate itself.

Get 'em to pay off ALL of the student loans AND expenses for each member's four years of school. I recall in "All The President's Men" the chief editor, Jason Robards, kept harping about having credible sources. Guess that doesn't matter in the 'unbiased press' anymore does it?

Yeah, I know that. But I figure Dinner has had so much of the Kool-Aid, it started back in the 4chan days.

Well, someone is on kool aid here but it is not me.

But, we shouldn't encourage flat out lies in the name of justice, either. Like evenflow said, rape is a damn serious charge and there needs to be a high bar set to ruin someone for that.

Agreed. I wouldn't encourage anybody to go out there with #istandwithjackie based on the recent revelations. But at the same time, we need to make actual victims feel safe coming forward. That's the concern.

One of the really cool things about 4chan before Moot sold out was that it saved The Fine Young Capitalists' contest designed to get more women into game development after it had been effectively sabotaged by Zoe Quinn and her cronies in the gaming press. And thus was born Vivian James.

Rolling Stone has done a huge disservice for any actual victims of rape. But this debacle does highlight how rape hysteria has gotten out of hand, when we have a major publication swallowing a falsified story hook, line, and sinker. The moral of the story: evidence and due process fucking matter.


Sent from my iPhone while driving

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ous_threats_of_charles_johnson_and_other.html

Well, it turns out Jackie's real first name is Jackie and students at UVA figured it out. The author didn't even bother to come up with a pseudonym. As you might expect the social justice warriors are declaring this doxxing the reprehensible thing ever and calling the people who did it trolls, but, others are asking some hard questions. About why people who cause real world harm to others shouldn't face the cosquences of their actions? What is wordforge's take?

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ult_is_a_serious_problem_but_the_efforts.html

Slate also had another interesting article about how the rape hysteria is happen at a time when violent crime, including rape, are at or near record lows. That hasn't slowed the campaign of the social justice warriors though and in many ways (the article discusses exactly what those are) they want men to suffer with fewer rights and to be automatically punished even if there is no evidence to support the claims.

I would hope that the recent high profile example of a woman out and out lying and making stuff up would cause people to rethink punishing people who have never been proven guilty.

It was breathtakingly stupid of the writer to not use a pseudonym for what she thought was a victim. I'm not surprised at the backlash, though, even if I don't support the more vile shit people spew.

Is rape the new moral panic? This kind of reminds me of the obsession people had with alleged satanic cults and people playing D&D in their basements in some ways.

There's no place for this kind of vigilante shit. The fraternity and perhaps school can and probably should sue, but once again, it's very easy for backlash to go too far.

Remember the Smurfs are satanic thing?

Nope, I remember a Smurfs are communist thing, though.

Late 80s early 90s some Christian conservatives were calling the Smurfs satanic.

Unsurprised. I still remain amused over their assertion that a bunch of nerds playing D&D was satanic, though.

Yes, and with the Satanic cult hysteria, the maxim became "Let's always believe the children."

...except let's not, because they're children and they (and were) often mistaken.

Let's always believe the woman who claims rape?