The elephant in the middle of the room...

...that's always been in the background around here is the issue of sexual harassment... Thanks to Volpone's thread about the Deflowering of TKO, I had to address the issue directly. Unfortunately, our policy on this up to now has been strictly theoretical, not having had a poster actually complain to staff before about an active issue of what would be considered sexual harassment. The reality is this: When it comes to sexual comments, unlike the vast majority of what we deal with here, it can take VERY LITTLE to cause real emotional pain... Because of this, no matter where it happens, telling the person the comment is directed at to "Get a thicker skin" is not at all acceptable. We've got a tough bunch, yes, but when it does get to that point, ignoring it isn't an option we have available.

As has been pointed out though, where do you draw the line?

What if Storm or Tex calls another poster gay and they report the post?

What's the context? Single comment? Is it done as a flame? In the Red Room? In that case, no action required.

My understanding is that only three things aren’t allowed in the Red Room:

• Violating privacy
• Anything illegal
• NSFW images without a spoiler

There is also the extreme trolling rule but that doesn’t apply to the vast majority of situations including this one.

Sexual harassment typically only applies to employment situations and as far as I know nobody is employed by Wordforge.

Or are we talking about protecting minors from online predators? If so, that’s already illegal and therefore not allowed.

Personally I wouldn't have changed the thread title but if I had I would've stated clearly that I was just being a nice guy and not enforcing some sort of policy.

That would've prevented/defused the whole situation.

Seriously, some people round here would start a shitstorm if you told them today is Monday. Changing it 'just because you're a nice guy' would have started another whole 'eliteforge' and 'some posters get more protection' outburst.
As Volpone wasn't around at the time, the only thing that might have worked was what someone suggested elsewhere: changing it 'as a temporary measure till I get a chance to talk to Volpone'.
And even then, I'm not sure.

I have to say, IMHO the original thread title was in extremely bad taste, but not against RR rules.

Tex's tirade, OTOH...

I disagree. Yet even if you are correct the outburst still would've been diminished.

A variation of my approach.

No accounting for taste.

Here is my take:

It becomes a problem when someone really complains.

What I mean by that, is if someone is truly offended they will most likely contact a staff member privately and/or post a complaint in the Help Desk.

It is my opinion that a situation like this must be handled privately..even if they start a Help Desk thread, they should be contacted privately to discuss it..hopefully getting the picture from the harassed of how they feel and then contacting the person harrassing privately as well. It will more than likely end there if done by PM.

Most people aren't really bothered by most stuff thrown around Wordforge. Faux outrage is often used to start shitstorms for the joy of drama. When someone has a real issue, they are usually smart enough to get it taken care of quietly.

I haven't been to the forums yet, just PM and here, but was there a reason that thread title was changed..did she ask for it to be changed? Ahh..I'll check it out soon anyway.

Let's just say... I think that grown men going after a teenage girl like that speaks for itself. I think she sees it just like that, which makes it easier to be a good sport about it.

But Storm really disgusts me lately. Where are the times when he was witty?

She made a public request for change in the thread. Three hours later, I asked her how serious she was about wanting it changed when she commented on how it stopped her "Birthday Thread" in the chat channel.

So yes, we actually have had an incident where someone REALLY complains.

But I don't think the rule should be changed.

Which rule?

Any rule.

Ain't we having fun today...

Yeah, this is a real dust-up this time. And Flashlight is earning himself a ban quite rapidly.

But y'know guys, I have to say that I agree somewhat with Gul and Tex and Ramen. Wordforge, especially the Red Room, is supposed to be the place where the easily-offended are toasted golden brown and mounted over the mantle for our amusement. That TKO is under-age is what makes this questionable. I don't want to have to make Wordforge "child safe" or else we'll be conducting all our dialogue on a childish level (well, more childish . . . ) and we're supposed to be about talking to each other like grown-ups.

Basically, it's bad that TKO is being sujected to this stuff, but by Wordforge rules for adult posters, that's just too bad so sad get the fuck out if you don't like it.

I think this is a real, serious issue here. If we're going to have children posting here (and let's not be coy, we've several underage posters) then we need to think about this stuff.

So, Lanz... You're saying that if TheLurker, Tamar, or any of the other women here have comments directed at them of a sexual nature that cause them hurt, they should just buck up and take it if our group of morons choose to continue after they make the perp aware that it's causing them hurt?

Thing is, we should, to be true to the spirit in which WF was founded and true to the red room.
The important thing is that if someone tried that with one of us, I like to think that any of us would hand him his arse on a plate in a heartbeat.

First thing this morning, I was totally against the idea of blocking anyone from RR. But I have to admit, I'm coming round to the idea that while I prefer many of the kids to any of the wankers, it's better for the board if the wankers get free range - easier to give them the treatment they deserve.

Yes. Exactly right. Because here on Wordforge they can blast right back, and likely have a whole pack of supporters blasting right along with them. That's supposed to be how it works here, remember?

No, it's not. Which is why we put in that extreme trollling clause, amongst other things.

You're under the mistaken impression that this is TK.

And you seem to be under the impression that it's Trek. Like I said to T'Bonz, our folks have the freedom to self-police. Assholes like Tasvir or Polarslam get hounded unmercifully. We don't need to bring out the jackboots every time somebody looks at us funny.

You two got me on ignore, or something?

Good lord. *rubs head*

It's going to take me forever to catch up on this stuff.

Hush. Listy and I are busy beating our chests and flinging poo.

^Outa rep, but that's what I thought...

I agree with thelurker, except about keeping the kids out by software. We get most of our "foot traffic" so-to-speak, from the Red Room, except around November when we get a lot from The Workshop. Closing down the Red Room as a public forum would be devastating to the new membership rate.

Point is, you can pretty much be whatever you want on the 'net. Age verification? Sure thing when you get them to fax you some ID And we're seeing how well it seems to work by the continued absence of the White Room (nothing against the tech admins of course, I know vB is simply not made for it).

Let's not overreact. I think it's better to put a clause in the pre-reg agreement thingy that says something like 'This is NOT a kid safe environment, verbal abuse may happen yadda. Please report any occurrence so appropriate action can be taken. Agree/Leave?'

And somebody tell the grown up men what harassing (supposed) teenagers in this kind of way is called in plain English. In private.

Screw that, you tell them in public.

Some posters like Async seem to think that those of us against censorship are for the things we don't think needs to be censored. He tried telling me that I don't respect women as much as him because I don't think they should get special mod treatment. I still agree with the view that the posters on the board can fix problems better than a mod can 99% of the time.

Actually, AFAIK, the White Room issue is a policy problem, atm. I for one would simply content to make the group membership moderated, or to have the standard "If you are not 18 years old click to exit" disclaimer

I'd love to believe that again.

I'm jaded after years of seeing very little evidence of it, though.