They're tear gassing peaceful protesters and arresting journalists in Ferguson tonight.

We are arguing about the question whether some of a person's positions are a result of their falsely generalising advantages they personally experienced. When you start off telling me I mustn't have a different position on that question than you, the debate is over before it started.

@oldfella1962



Whites kill more whites than any other race.

Hispanics kill more Hispanics than any other race.

Native Americans kill more Native Americans than any other race.

When you live in areas that are predominately one race, as most of America does, that tends to happen.

I'll grant you, blacks don't kill other blacks for such things as being rejected by too many girls, being spiteful after their husband divorces them, or anything of that sort. but the "black-on-black crime" was language cooked up by some tough on crime conservative to make it seem like this was only unique to blacks. It's not. It's a non-starter and I've even told my black friends and family to just remove it from their lexicon too.

It also doesn't excuse shit like Philando, Tamir and the caregiver that got shot trying to keep his autistic patient calm.

Come on, try to follow the conversation here. How do any of those things enable a kid to fix his own home life?

White cops, OTOH, are top scorers across the board...

Everyone comes to their positions through their own life experiences. You don't know--can't know--what all of another person's are. When you say "check your privilege" YOU are the one making presumptions about another's life experiences and about whether their positions come from false generalizations. In other words, you assume that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be reality impaired.

If you think something I say is untrue, tell me why you think it's untrue. Don't attack me to try to shut down the debate. The validity of one's positions doesn't turn on whether one is "privileged" in some arbitrarily defined way. That's as insulting as it would be to say someone's "under-privilege" has kept them from being properly educated and, therefore, nothing they think can be true.

And, again, didn't say that. I said don't launch personal attacks on me.

forget it... you may as well try and convince them that minimum wage workers should have purchasing power.

Completely wrong. Why are you so afraid? Nobody wants to take anything from you. They want you to speak openly and respectfully, they want you to listen to their experience without denying or marginalizing it. That's the right way to be with other people.

You totally missed the point. Yes, I realize all the races kill their own race more than any other. So if a black parent worries that their kid might get shot (by another black most likely) then how is this anybody's fault but blacks? Granted I am not talking about the tiny chance of a black kid getting shot by a white cop - you as a black parent might as well give your kid "that talk" about getting struck by lightning.

That's why I am constantly preaching to hire only black cops. Now who can you blame when a black gets shot by a cop? Something to think about!

1) I haven't said 'check your privilege' to anyone here. Why do you think I have?

2) In the context in which you seem to be wrongly imagining I did say that to you, YOU told us you came from a stable middle-class white home. Now you tell me I can't know those facts about you. Are you saying I should assume you are lying? I guess it's possible, but it seems far-fetched.

3) I am trying very hard not to make this about you, but since you insist: In that same context, you said that you believe most people grow up in healthy, stable homes. My assertion was that such beliefs are often the result of a false generalisation of one's own personal experiences rather than empirical data. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that this was the case for you -- that wasn't part of my claim --, but let's check it for this instance anyway, until you agree to make it not about you:

When you said you believe that healthy homes aren't rare, had you thought about how to formalise healthy homes empirically, checked actual statistical data, and come to that conclusion, or were you speaking about your general impression of how the world is, without empirical proof?

Since nobody responded to my post, I declare myself victorious.

Again, "whose fault is the difference?" is a red herring used to distract from the issue of "people are blind to the difference".

I don't remember your post, but what the hell. Well done!!

Uh, it's almost a perfect example of ad hominem.

It amounts to: "Your prior statement is in error because your privileged position in life prevents you from understanding certain aspects of reality."

Afraid?

No, they just want to invalidate my views without rationally arguing against them.

"Check your privilege" is a rebuke. It's not respectful. It's NEVER used in a respectful way. NEVER.

If they use "check your privilege," THEY are the ones trying to deny or marginalize another's experience.

Nope, they are saying walk a mile in my shoes, think outside the box, wake up and smell the flowers, step out of your comfort zone. The statement is meant to mean that you should be willing to take a critical self assessment regarding your pre-conceived notions because you might be missing some data if you don't.

That "tiny chance" becomes more of a likelihood if you live in an area where cops like to stop you a lot more often
My roommate from Alabama has seen her family's car stopped and searched with the seats pulled out more times than she can count. My other black friends, both from the South and the West Coast, and from all walks of life have had similar experiences. The San Diego cops are pretty laid back and don't care about speeding as long as you aren't at fucktard weaving through traffic at 100 miles an hour, former coworker at my last job

It is a phrase that points out a common human fallacy. Your insistence on respect and protecting your feelings doesn't address the point at all. Would you talk the same way about other human fallacies?

"You are denying the antecedent." "That's not a respectful thing to say!"

"You are affirming the consequent." "That's not a respectful thing to say!"

"You are committing a base line fallacy." "That's not a respectful thing to say!"

Point out who has done this in the thread, besides maybe Quest.

I'll wait.

"Check your privilege" was a short-lived phrase that replaced "shut the fuck up, white devil" on social media.

It was ridiculed so much by both sides that it fell out of use.

You mentioned the phrase in a way that seemed to support its use.

1. Were my parents married all the while I was growing up? Divorced? Did either of them die early? Did either of my parents re-marry? Do I have any step-siblings?
2. What race(s) are my parents?
3. What was my family's income when I was in grade school?
4. Where did I live when I was 10? 15? 20?
5. What is my highest level of educational attainment?
6. What was my first job?
7. Describe my three closest friends.
8. What religion (if any) was practiced in my household?

You see, you probably know almost next to nothing about me, but you think that because I tell you I came from a decent, middle class home that that's all you need to sum me up.

I said "decent," not healthy, and I did not supply a definition of what that meant. I did not check statistics, but I have (1) the empirical evidence of my own experience and learning and (2) reason and common sense. My generalization is not from some "privileged" position (e.g., "I was X, so everyone must be X") nor is it from any lack of contact with the greater world.

Small world. About 3:00 one of my peers got a call from a guy who recently worked here. He got pulled over in Mississippi by a white cop - he is a black Muslim with a strong African accent.
Despite cultural differences the black Muslim did not get shot - because even though he was not speeding or breaking any laws (or so he claimed & I do believe him because he is like a black Ned Flanders) he realized this was not the time or the place to make a political statement. Bottom line when they realized he was an Army NCO he drove off into the sunset. Was he targeted? Who knows - but he played it smart by being laid-back and cooperative. Is he a sellout or a realist? I say realist and I'm sure his family would agree.

I didn't claim anyone did, only that @Packard seemed to state that this was acceptable in polite discourse. I objected for the reasons given.

So if the problem is bad home life, and we're supposed to feel guilty for having a good home life, how come the liberals' suggested solution isn't improving black home life? How come they're not doing the full Cosby on hammering the fatherhood message home?

It's because they don't want to solve the problem, they want to milk the problem.

That's not at all the same thing. I also support the use of the word 'apple'. That doesn't mean I think you are an apple.

Nobody is trying to sum you up. The question was whether you came from a decent home, not any of the other details, on which I made no claim. The evidence we had was you saying you came from a decent home. Should I or should I not feel comfortable in assuming that the answer to the question is therefore yes?

Ok. Note in passing that at this point you have conceded the only claim I made in that context.

Explain how that works. You made a claim about 7+ billion people: You're saying the majority of them come from decent homes. You are now claiming that a good basis to make that call is looking at what home you came from, and then using common sense on that basis. Walk us through that process.

No.

No.

Yep, there's that bubble!

So you're saying an Army NCO should just suck it up when Enos and Roscoe pull him over for whatever because they know and he knows they can leave his ass in a bog and probably get away with it?

I think the real villains in all this are upper-middle class blacks with stable homes who refuse to acknowledge their privilege.

And again.