More info needed but it's probably not related to the rest of the losses. btw, have we ever lost an F-15 in actual combat?
More info needed but it's probably not related to the rest of the losses. btw, have we ever lost an F-15 in actual combat?
No we have not lost an F-15 in combat. Both crew members (the F-15C is a one seater) were recovered safely. This is almost certainly pilot error and not structural failure. Mechanical failure is also a possibility.
Dude.. I just read that one of those guys died link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080221/ap_on_re_us/missing_planes
Well, the jury is out, but my guess is either a formation 'mishap' or they hit each other while engaged in ACM. It's a dangerous profession. God bless them both, and my thoughts are with the dead guy's family.
Based on how often we seem to lose aircraft in collisions during training manuvers, perhaps the Air Force should look into changing the training program.
Shit happens. Train like you fight, fight like you train. You can't dumb down the training too much or it isn't preparing you for war. These risks come with the game. You accept them when you pin on your wings. End of story.
I'm sure the training procedures are about as safe as they can get. It's the "law of averages." When you have hundreds of AF pilots flying everyday worldwide, it's eventually going to happen. We lost four folks in Kuwait (helicopter full of crewmembers) about a week before the actual war started on a very routine flight, within mere seconds of safely reaching the runway. Our unit had just taken control of the air traffic only hours before - what a way to start our first day on the job.
Fully agreed. And you do have to train like you fight. God bless them all: "[SIZE=-1]We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."[/SIZE]
One of the interesting things I remember about Desert Storm was that the RAF Tornados had a lower accident and loss rate in actual combat than they experienced in training! Those fellas train real hard.
Just stop hiring gay Decepticons. "Accidental collision", my ass... Starscream attempting to get jiggy with Thundercracker, oh yeah.
...and yet that the RAF Tornados had the highest loss rate in actual combat than any other plane in Desert Storm. Talk about putting shit in perspective.
But we don't train like we fight; we're obviously MUCH more agressive in training. We don't lose nearly so many planes in actual combat. And everytime there's a collision, that's TWO significant military assets--not to mention the pilots!--that the taxpayers have lost. I think safety rules could be increased without much diminishment to warfighting ability. If so, we wouldn't read about three or four of these incidents every year. Besides, when and if war comes, I want more pilots and planes.
The RAF losses were higher because of the flight profiles the Tornadoes were flying. They initially stuck to their 'on the deck, in the dirt' mission profiles, which put them squarely in the enemy's SAM envelopes. The US forces would go in high and drop weapons from medium altitudes, negating much of the Iraqi SAM capabilities. Once the Brits twigged to this, they switched tactics and their losses fell off sharply.
Just found out that the pilot who died, Lt. Ali Jivanjee, was the son of one of my vendors. He leaves behind a wife and his parents and siblings.
