While we're on the subject of abortion...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6618911.stm

How is this even possible in Europe? Does the Catholic doctrine outweigh the fact that as an EU member, this girl should have freedom of movement within Europe?

The Irish state is basically saying that she can't leave Ireland and virtually putting her under house arrest. How do the pro-life Americans feel about this sort of intrusion from the Government?

I genuinely would like to hear from people such as Ted, as I know he's anti-Government but pro-life.

This is a totally fucked-up decision. I don't see how anyone should be forced to go through a pregnancy they don't want, but when the foetus is anencephalic... well, I would say it's a no-brainer, but that would be in rather bad taste...

A condition of free movement if you're going to another member state and not planning on just a short visit or to work is that you have medical insurance. This is because if you're not going to be paying into the country you are expected to pick up the bill if you get sick (subject to some exceptions). Normally in these casesif she paid privately and then travelled through the Common Travel Area via Northern Ireland then she could come to the UK and get done what she needs to do, irrespective of what the Irish court says. The problem lies in the fact that she's sponging off of their welfare system and if she comes here she sponges off the NHS, which is contrary to her obligations under EU law and, frankly, nothing more than health tourism. I entirely agree that the irish law banning abortions is unreasonable, but I don't see why it's Britain's problem.

I'm not suggesting it is our problem. I'm just gobsmacked that she's been threatened with arrest if she leaves Irish borders(I would assume this applies to entrance to NI) when she's not done anything to warrent such draconian measures, never mind it contravines her status as an EU citizen.

If Ireland wants to convince the world she's not some agrarian, 3rd world backwater and is a progressive country, deserving of all her juicey EU subsidies, she's going about it completely the wrong way IMO.

Feeling suicidal is a legally valid reason to have an abortion in Ireland?

Aside from actually killing yourself how could that ever be proven?

Easy.

No kidding? And people are okay with this policy?

Damn.

Any advice how California could implement a similar policy?

Yeah, don't see why not. As long as it's a comprehensive policy.

Some member states also operate under the European Health Insurance card policy, which provides limited insurance in member states.

The European Union is primarily economic so when the EC was orginally formed the view was taken that the intention of free movement should be to allows other member states to benefit from their citizens skills and economic stimulation. Ergo, those who don't work in the member states that they travel to aren't making an economic contribution by way of tax and national insurance payments so the EC, as it was then, decided that those who weren't working and putting money into the member state that they were in should make sure that they were insuranced and weren't a financial threat to the welfare system. It's a perfectly reasonable policy, especially as it obviously doesn't apply to EEA nationals still in their home country.

In reality most EEA nationals are oblivious to the requirement and there are many thousands living and not working in other member states. The issue usually only comes up as a technicality in situations like this or when people try to take the nationality of the country they are living in.

Fucking medievalism. Bertie Ahern (the PM) recently said that Ireland needed to resist growing secularism.

The election is in three weeks and this should be an issue.

Oh my I'm shocked the Irish are lead by inbred twats.

I suspect they are able to do this due to the fact she is in care and therefore the state has parental control of her.
For a number of years Irish women were banned from coming to England for abortions, however since 1992 the right to travel for an abortion has been allowed. Approximately 100 women a week travel here for that reason.
According to another article, since 2002 three Irish teenagers in care have been allowed to travel for abortions.

I can't see any reason, if they have allowed others to do so, why this girl shouldn't be allowed to travel. The girl has said that it's only the fact that the child is so ill, that has prompted her to seek the abortion. It seems cruel, knowing this child is going to die, to force this girl to go through with the pregnancy.

Sounds like yet another reason not to rely on your benevolent overlords to manage and fund your medical care.

I've got to hear how you are reaching that conclusion.

From Ireland? If so, they might as well start allowing abortion then. Banning it, does NOT stop abortion. People just have to seek it elsewhere, sometimes under condition of duress or in a very unsafe environment. People who think banning abortion will actually stop abortions from taking place are living in a delusional state, IMO. The only thing preventing her from having one, is that the state is basically strapping her to a bed, so to speak. Which, IMO, is dispicable, immoral and downright fascist.

Say we over-turned Roe vs Wade in the US? Are we going to do this to women who flee to Canada or other countries for an abortion? Or jail them for doing so? This is one of the major reasons why, IMO, banning abortion is a ludicrous prospect.

Hey, anything to protect the fetus.

Yep. That of course doesn't include those women who travel from Ireland to other European countries, so the total of Irish women travelling for an abortion is likely to be higher than that.

If abortion is illegal a women will still find a way if they're desperate enough.

But at least the Irish priests and politicians get to feel smug about it.

Laxatives?

Hot baths, gin, and knitting needles.
Legal, safe abortion is a much better idea.

and lets not forget coat hangers and butcher style doctors.

I doubt it. No one tried to jail me when I went to Amsterdam in order to break American laws. They did thoroughly search my luggage on the way back though.

Well the Irish are wrong IMHO but this post means nothing.

#1 If Roe vs Wade is overturned it doesn't mean abortion is outlawed. It would simply fall back on the states. Some states would make it legal and some wouldn't. You wouldn't have to leave the country you'd just go to another state. If the federal government outlawed abortion then a woman would have to go somewhere else but abortion being outlawed at the federal level has very little chance of ever happening.

#2 A state could not stop someone from going to another state for a medical procedure or any other reason. We are not the EU.

#3 While I disagree with the Irish I understand why they are doing it but the way they are doing it would never work in America. We are not required to have medical insurance to cross state borders.

#4 Even without medical insurance a woman in the US could get an abortion. Planned Parenthood and other organizations would help out.

Y'ever notice the women never start these?

They're too busy getting abortions. Duh.

Am I mistaken about at least part of the problem being that she's receiving some sort of state medical care and neighboring countries don't want to pick up abortion bills for people who have never paid into their system?

^Totally. The problem is that the local authority that is in loco parentis is trying to push its own agenda instead of looking out for her best interests.
Health care costs don't come into it.

What local authority was that? The police, a hospital, what?

And she's paying all of her own bills?

The local council. They're the ones in loco parentis. We don't pay our own bills unless we want to.

Which is why I said "if we banned abortion" towards the end, should have put that in my first sentence too, not just RvW being over-turned. Who knows what the federal government might pull with the right, err wrong, people in office. They might not let it fall back on the states. /shrug

I was more posing the hypothetical to those who are pro-life and wish for no one to have an abortion, rather than those who either are pro-life or pro-choice, but do not want the state to interfere in our private lives.