World Rankings

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Aenea, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    A Walmart shopping cart was blown into the street in front of my wife's Explorer and she didn't have time to stop.

    Had to put the vehicle in the shop because it cracked a bunch of shit on the front by the headlights. :garamet:
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  2. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    At least no one's called them "buggies" yet. :lol:
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  3. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    No.
    He should at least put in the same amount of effort as the majority of us who don't steal shopping carts do. Frankly, anything short of cheap plastic bags and actual groceries in them is a bit of a cheat.
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  4. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    buggies are a whole different vehicle.
  5. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    He's not gonna do it, anyway. It'll just be funny to see how many excuses he can come up with.
    Where I come from, a buggy is what you'd probably call a pram. (There’s even a tongue-twister. Try saying “rubber baby buggy bumpers” five times fast.)

    In some areas of the South, though, shopping carts are “buggies.” :mystery:
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  6. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    heh-I remember that tongue twister too.

    "Pram" is kinda dated and Anglophilic... I generally hear "baby carriage".


    "Buggy" has a few uses. A shopping buggy, for instance, is one of those fold up things most often associated with little old ladies. It's also a secondary term for the electric scooters they get around on.

    A "baby buggy"? That's usually a stroller, afaik.
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  7. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    What if you never train their tastebuds on junk food to begin with?

    Kids develop most of their food preferrences by age five when, like in every other aspect of life, they grow more than at any other point in life. If you don't give them Hostess and sodas, chances are good that if and when they discover this at an older age, they won't eat/drink so much of it.
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  8. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    I thought a fair number of taste preferences were formed in utero? By what the mother eats.
  9. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    There's part of that...my mom never ate vegs, but craved them when she was pregnant with me.

    But that's not set in stone, and should be re enforced through life.
  10. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    I always called them carts growing up, but most of my neighbors call them carriages. Never heard one called a buggy, though.
  11. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    A good education? I brought up the fact that poor immigrant kids often attend the same shitty schools (at least up until high school or college) as the kids who act up/skip class/dropout etc. yet still become productive members of society. Good school, bad school, you get out of it what you put in. Any good parent knows this! The best schools in the world won't help if you don't apply yourself.
    And how the fuck do poor immigrants find and keep jobs? Are they just lucky, or do they work harder?
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  12. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Free ranging buggies are a menace. Anyone who doesn't put their buggy back in the corral or the designated spot at their apartment should be drawn and quartered! :mad:
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  13. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    I thought a fair number of taste preferences were formed in utero? By what the mother eats.

    I doubt it. I never developed much of a taste for clown dick.
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  14. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    For point #1--this is fairly true, but the problem becomes giving said kids a challenge in school to be competitve in college. If the highest math class offered you school is Algebra II (as was the case for Jamie Escalante's students in "Stand and Deliver" ), the kid is fucked regardless of work ethics or intelligence. You're not getting into any kind of worthwhile school without anything less than trig on your transcript. This is one of the other inequalities amoung American schools that Garamet was talking about, and worth addressing, imo.
  15. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  16. Aenea

    Aenea .

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    Poverty is definitely a contributing factor in where students will go in education. But parents have a lot to do with whether a kid is growing up in poverty or not and how they grow up in it. Some poverty kids are still given a firm foundation, but those in adjunct poverty more than likely won't. (some poverty doesn't seem like poverty till you look at it strictly from money, ie a lot of rural kids are in poverty but neither they or you would know it until you looked at income. Not all poverty is created equal)

    We do not value teachers in this country. I will say however that we don't need to throw more money at school systems as it seems to all go to administration. It needs to go to enforcing mandatory parental involvement in the children's education.

    Also in this country we teach everyone and leveling is seen as a bad thing. How do you expect our kids to get ahead when they are constantly being held back by those students who did not go to head start and so forth. Of course the two will level out by 2nd grade if you do not push the kids who have already learned things in head start to go forward with new subjects. These kids are left to watch the other kids catch up. (Many other countries do not allow Special Ed kids to go to school. Many of these countries put an 8th grade education as the tops many students can get. If you are testing their equivalent 15 year olds you will have a much smaller pool (smarter and dedicated as well) to choose their students from, to take the test. )

    And how were these kids chosen to take this test? Only 6000 or so students took the test in the US. Lottery?
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  17. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    examples, please?
    Which of the 16 or so countries ahead of the US in education either sets an elementary education as an average or denies any further education to special needs students?
  18. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    I think maybe she is referring to the gymnasium (prep school), realschule (tech school), hauptschule (prison school) division in Germany and some other European countries.

    I've never heard that only gymnasium students take these tests but if true that would be an example of sample bias.
  19. Aenea

    Aenea .

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    Link Wiki I know but for general use not so bad.

    I didn't say elementary by the way. And when you send kids of to VO-TECH (which I am huge proponent for and wish we did more of here) they do not usually get trig and calculus like a traditional high school student would.
    And the Sp Ed actually came from our Secretary of Education in Oklahoma (?). I think it was her. Right after being elected she went to several countries to learn of their education systems. When she got to Germany she asked where their Sp Ed kids were and was told they were at home. :shrug: Oh course in thinking about it she is an idiot. So I will re-think that bit.

    Link

    However that being said. Their kids get a school of their own. (Which is much better in my opinion as they aren't always compared to students with "normal" ability.) But it stands that they are still not with the "normal kids" as they are here. Here they are all mainstreamed together. You may have a 2nd grade level math student in with a 10th grade ability student in Geometry together. It's fun to go between all the levels in a one hour period.

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  20. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    So if you test a bunch of Americans and Germans that've both had 8 years of schooling the result is biased how?

    I'm just not catching how when apples are compared to apples at the middle of their growth how the bias that Aenea cites can exist?
  21. Aenea

    Aenea .

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    8th graders are 13-14 in the US. Mainly 13. PISA tests 15 year olds.
  22. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    okay, that makes a little more sense. You don't have multiple levels of the same subjects? When I was in HS, there were up to 4 levels for some subjects. They'd all teach the same stuff, but in the case of say, natural sciences, it'd be simplified and cursory vs. an advanced placement version preparing a student for university.
  23. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    U.S. schools have a completely warped pay structure for teachers. Educators that get paid the most are the specialists and administrators. So the people that get paid MOST are the ones who interact with the FEWEST students.

    And administrators routinely overload rookie teachers with oversized classes full of the school troublemakers. Which is a huge reason why literally thousands of American teachers get out of the job after only 3 years.

    A more reasonable pay structure would reimburse teachers extra who were willing to teach larger classes and/0r with students who were major problems in the past.
  24. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    It’s a variation on the corporate structure explored in the Peter Principle, where people are promoted to their level of incompetence and paid more to stay there.
  25. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    What a limited view you allow yourself. Get yourself some more eyeglasses, or failing that some better ones.

    How about:
    If this is to believed it's not our schools that suck, but that children in poverty disproportionately disrupt classes and reduce learning relative to schools with lower poverty rates, largely because their parents give a fuck about them disproportionately less than people not in poverty?

    or:
    If this is to believed it's not our schools that suck, but that children in poverty disproportionately dislike school relative to kids not growing up in poverty, so they don't study at home, or pay much attention in school (too busy knitting the holes in their socks and shivering by the heater in back of classroom, what have you) and their scores alone are enough to bring down averages even assuming they had no dragging effect on their classmates?

    And I haven't even really thought about it yet. There's probably a good handful of reasonable possibilities for anyone other than blind lefty hacks.


    And speaking of the wealth-gap, please don't tell me you're among those morons that would like everyone in America to be poorer just so we could reduce the gini coefficient, that in your view of the world that would be progress (or an improvement).
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  26. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    (A) What data did you use to assess all 98,000+ public schools across 1,500+ school districts in 50 states? Do tell us about your research methodology.

    (B) If by “give a fuck about them disproportionately less” you mean “are dealing with circumstances about which Tuttle knows nothing, possibly including but not limited to unemployment or holding down two or more jobs; illness; homelessness; spousal absence or abuse, etc., etc., etc.” you’re correct.

    (C) Can you prove that every disruptive kid has been screened for learning disabilities?

    See (A) above.

    (B) I bet you had your own room and a desk and everything growing up, didn’t you? That’s why you assume every kid in America does, too.

    More like sharing textbooks/computer access or dodging falling plaster in some schools. The trailers used in overcrowded schools have central heat, but you'd have to check the ones that use Quonset huts. It's the homeless kids or the ones in the tenements where the landlord would rather pay the fines than provide heat who have the problem.