What if the South successfully seceded?

If the South agrees to take the Midwest with them (Chicago excepted) then I'll support them.

They can call the new country "Jesusland".

I suppose the West could go too, but I'd really miss the Southwest.

You almost got your way...

Forbidding criticism of the war? Wait, I forget, Lincoln was the good guy right...

True.

It was predictable after the Democratic party split in 1860, the southern half walking out and nominating former VP Breckenridge, the northern half backing Buchanon's arch-rival Douglas.

The Republican victory was only inevitable then. Prior to that, they had the edge, but it wasn't insurmountable.

South Carolina declared secession specifically because of the Presidential results.

Regardless, it's irrelevant - this is a 'what if'.

In this case, what if the North didn't fight to keep the South, and secession happened without incident.

Hmm, them good ole boys woulda been A-OK with the newly freed slaves.

Lets see, with Civil War black have a hard time in the South after the war.

You say no KKK and no segregation. Right?!

I think it woulda been 10x worse for blacks in the south with thousands fleeing to the North.

Actually, I think it's a fallacy that Lincoln caused the war.

There was GOING to be a war, whether it happened in 1861 or 1891. There might have been several.

The long term ramifications of a split US means constant conflict on Western expansion, and an opportunity for foreign powers to become involved in manipulating the situation. Certainly the old European powers would have relished the opportunity.

Hell, you could have had the Union and Confederacy fighting each other on opposite sides of the Great War.

Was Lincoln the closest thing to a dictator the US has ever seen? Absolutely.

Was he wrong?

Personally, I think not. I think he paid the short term price to prevent a longer term issue.

There in lies the problem.

It was NOT POSSIBLE for secession to happen without incident.

If each southern state seceded and made no overt efforts to assert their independence, then no one, not other nations, not other southern states, not even their own citizens would take their seccession seriously.

They would still be part of the United States in everything effective meaning of the word.

Likewise, if the federal govt. made no move to resist secession at all, the federal govt. would be in effect announcing its own illegitimacy.

Why did the battle begin over Ft. Sumpter? It was basically worthless to either side. But it was an obvious symbol of the legitimacy of the govt. of South Carolina on one hand and the legitimacy of the federal govt. on the other.

A seccession without violence was all but impossible.

For what its worth, one thing that has kept Quebec from leaving Canada is that several experts said at the very least there would be scattered violence if it happened.

What are you smoking?

There wouldn't have to be a KKK, lynch mobs and slave catchers did the job just fine. Racial segregation? What about Octaroons and the like? Reconstruction didn't turn Dixie racist.

What the fuck makes you think we want anything to do with them, much less the rest of you?

Bad enough Arizona and New Mexico were eye-balling our water, now there's a drought in the SE...

Lincoln caused the war, but he didn't really cause secession.

Yes, there would have been a war. It would have happened by 1865 or 1870 at the latest, even if the South had freed the slaves by 1860.

Yes it did.

You believe in unicorns and leprechauns, don't you?