Amnesty international details war crimes in Gaza

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8128210.stm

I'd highlight the relevant parts, but it's all pretty shocking.

Most of the lies of the IDF's recent whitewash have been exploded. But I'm sure that Amnesty International can be dismissed as a bunch of anti-Semites or it can be asserted that Israel is entitled to commit these crimes for various reasons. Let the apologism begin.

 

When you use women and children as shields, you can expect civilian casualties. Unlike the Islamic scum, the Israelis don't target civilians.

 

So Amnesty International are lying?

 

Not really a one or the other type of situation. I'm not sure where Amnesty International's reporting ranks on the veracity scale but it's just another take on the situation. It'd be great if somebody really had a lock on the whole Middle-East unrest thing, but nobody does, this is only more fuel on the fire.

 

There is no such thing as Non-Combatant Police in Gaza.

 

Isn't Amnesty International the same organization that bitches and moans everytime the U.S. executes some guy who murdered three or four people?

Where is the war crime here? I don't recall nations being obligated to use "precision attacks" in order to avoid civilian fatalities.

 

Have you even read the OP?

Indiscriminate killing. Using children as human shields. Obstructing access to medical care. Use of white phosphorous.

Do you accept those things or do you think that Amnesty are lying?

 

Not neccessarily lying....just useless as tits on a pipe-wrench.

 

Have you read post #5?

 

Yes, and I trust Amnesty to be closer to the truth than any other party involved, given their independence.

 

Amnesty are a bunch of cock sucking liars. They twist and distort facts of war to suit their agenda.

 

Ordering children to "remain inside" while fighting is going on?

Oh dear. I should think they should have them all stand outside exposed to shrapnel.

Next time there is a shooting on my street, I'll be sure and tell my wife and daughter to stand outside.

And what is wrong with white phosphorous?

Next thing we'll be hearing is that WP is a "chemical weapon".

 

No, you fanatical warwanker. That's a deliberate distortion. Read the fucking thing.
"Amnesty does accuse Israel of using civilians, including children, as human shields in Gaza, forcing them to remain in houses which its troops were using as military positions, and to inspect sites suspected of being booby trapped."

It is, it's banned, and the Israelis claim not to use it as a weapon.

 

That's not phosphorus, that's White Hot Love.

 

Wiki even has an entry for "criticism" of Amnesty. 'samazing the ideas you can be exposed to if you just keep an open mind.

here

This

has been my long-standing fault with Amnesty. They don't even pretend to be fair or balanced in their reporting. They freely admit that they're out to have things their way no matter who they have to run over or what even more serious issues they have to ignore.

They do have their place but, like so many other groups who claim to be working for our good, they have their own set of biases and short-sightedness just like any other group.

It is fun to see them bashing Obama, though.

 

Point of order here. Who "banned" it?

 

Does it surprise you that they report more on the activities of countries where it's possible to report more?

This is a legitimate reason to question the validity of any comparative data -- does Israel look bad because it is bad, or because groups like AI aren't even allowed to see what's going on in much worse countries? -- but hardly indicates any wrongdoing on Amnesty's part.

 

I guess it's just the self-righteousness inherent in their pronouncements. I really don't think Israel is as bad as they claim AND I don't think they're anywhere near as bad as their neighbors. In any case, AI doesn't issue any caveats on their judgments to put them in perspective.

 

I do think that's legitimate criticism, and I do think that when evaluating Israel's actions, the fact that they're surrounded by bloodthirsty neighbors who want to see them wiped off the face of the earth does have to be consideration (although I wonder how many of the people who make the same argument would argue vehemently against moral relativism in other situations).

 

White phosphorus is wonderful. It can be used for illumination at night. It can be used for smokescreens during the day, and it makes Bad Guys hit by it very, very unhappy.

 

This does not surprise me. But personally, I do not consider Amnesty International to be objective or independent. I do not say I disagree with them necessarily, either, but I always want confirmation before I start getting excited about something AI said. Their credibility rating with me is not 0, but neither is it absolute. Or even very close.

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Whom do you want "confirmation" from? And in what way are Amnesty not independent?

 

Wasn't it Amnesty International that made up a massacre at Jenin out of whole cloth a few years back? I know the BBC reported it, but I think it was based on a press release from AI.

 

They have their own agenda which is far from just giving out unbiased facts. Their credibility for honest real assessments of situations is about zero. Israel should just bar these asshats like Atab countries do.

 

What's Amnesty's definition of child?

 

The report refers to multiple specific examples of incidents involving children, and all seem to be younger than fourteen, many much younger.

 

During the fighting, rumors of a massacre circulated.[4] While Jenin remained sealed during the invasion, stories of hundreds and even thousands of civilians being killed, and buried alive in their homes as they were demolished, and of smoldering buildings covering crushed bodies, spread throughout the Arab world. However, subsequent investigations found no evidence to substantiate claims of a massacre and the final death toll was set at 52 to 56 Palestinians, of whom 5-26 may have been civilians. Twenty three IDF soldiers were also killed in the fighting.

 

Were AI responsible for these rumours?

And despite them not being true, it still seems like the IDF committed similar crimes to those carried out in Gaza.