What is immoral about sex before marriage?

Statistically, no. Will back up later.

Yes, I have also read that. However, statistically, for me, 100% of my marriages that followed shacking up have lasted longer than 15 years.

I was being facetious.

I suspect that people who refuse to live together before marriage for religious reasons are also more likely to stay in bad marriages for religious reasons.

I read about this in Men's Health. The problem is that people move in together too hastily, but then they find themselves too entrenched and complacent to separate if the relationship is not strong. Then they get married by default, this solidifying the weak relationship, and then things fall apart after years of stress.

I imagine the problem is not living together before marriage, but choosing to live together too soon in the relationship. The same could be said about choosing to get married.

I was thinking more along the lines of moving in after you know you're going to get married but before you actually get hitched. That way you get to know your partner's household habits and whether or not you can live with them.

I've heard that the problem is people who lived together stay on their best behavior because they know their partner can walk away at any time.

In a marriage it isn't that way. One of the partners may be crazy and unbearable for days, weeks, or even months at a time and the walk away option isn't all that handy.

A man may go through a midlife crisis where he quits his job and does all manner of stuff that lasts for years. A woman might do whatever the hell women do.

Point is, when you get married you need to be prepared to deal with your partner at their worst from time to time. There is a reason most wedding vows have "for better and for worse"

If a spouse acts like an ass to that extent, the "walk away option" is always available.

No point in suffering "for years" with an intolerable situation.

Some people actually love their spouse a whole lot you know.

Exactly. I don't know what my wife would be like in 5-10 years. She might turn into a religious fanatic and start beating me!

The "walk away" option should always be on the table. That's why I don't intend to get married.

You are proof of that.

Yeah, and if a spouse starts acting like an unrepentant ass for an extended period and won't stop, that's not love and the other spouse should be free to leave at that point.

Because if you really love your spouse, you don't act that way toward them.

There can be reasons a spouse acts like an unrepentant ass you know. Medical problems. Job stresses. Mental illness. Character flaws.

And the other spouse's patience can run out.

Eventually. But in general patience is something most people need more of.

My daddy always told me that when there are problems in a marriage, there is almost never one innocent and one guilty party. Usually both husband and wife have both contributed to whatever situation there is.

One reason my dad was the one in the family who his brother and sisters NEVER ran to for sympathy when they had marital problems because he was just as likely to be interested in his sister in laws or brother in laws sides as he was in that of his brother and sisters.

So your Daddy was a moron too? Interesting.

In theory,yes.

In practice, no because money. And material things. And pride about not being a sixty year old woman on the bus with nothing being looked down on by friends she doesn't have because she gets pissed off too fucking easily, mom.

Me, I'd live on the Goddamn street before putting up with the shit some people do to stay married.

My wife and I shacked up for two years. We've been married for 20 years.

Did you learn or discover anything in those two years that you think improved your marriage or made it more viable.

Not necessarily. It was more of a try before you buy thing.

My wife and I moved in together 25 years ago this month. December will be our 25th wedding anniversary.

I learned from shacking up that I wanted to be married to her. It hadn't always been clear to me that I had a desire for marriage. My wife and I lived together in various arrangements for six years before getting married. Next April will be 19 years of marriage. Without the preceding six, we might not have ever moved on to the wedding.

I think it's good to explore all the crazy sex shit prior to marriage. For one, to have no regrets. And two, to fine tune your skills.


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Or the guy takes his pants off and has a small dick. You can't do a lot with a small dick.

I agree. I just want to get that out there.

But do you guys actually like your wives?

So, you can love someone so much you want to get married but.............they can then have "habits" that are so annoying that you do not want to get married?

Ridiculous.

What, so you learn to love someone fully from dinners, movies, and ice skating? (And bible study?)

Yeah. The idea that you learn to love somebody by anything other than actually getting to know that person is bizarre. A person's habits are a part of who that person is, and if you're not willing to learn them then you're not willing to love that person.

He still has a mouth, right?