What is immoral about sex before marriage?

Not the same as an average or above average dick.

I could get into why, but no.

I'm kidding, for the most part.

I've seen Japanese porn where you practically need a microscope to see their peckers. There's a reason why the fattest, grossest, most undesirable men in the military can pick up wives in Japan when an American wouldn't give them the time of day.

ETA: for some reason, I thought I was responding to Oldfella.

Not at all.

I loved someone, we got engaged and moved in. After a few months it came horribly apparent it wasn't going to work because we had wildly different view of what settling down would consist of.

Current partner, who I love very much and am planning on marrying, has been living with me now for around 6 months and it works very, very well.

Had I married the former partner before moving in, we'd have divorced inside of 18 months of soul-being-shat-on misery. This, I suspect, will last an whole lot longer and happier.

A good relationship and love isn't a 1:1 relationship, love is just one connection of many that go into that recipe.

No it isn't.

The person could be a complete slob, leaving dirty dishes in the sink and on the cabinets, dirty laundry scattered around the house, etc.

To say that you can "know" that kind of stuff about a person without cohabiting for a while is truly ridiculous.

Or it could turn out they like "Twilight", and/or watch "Duck Dynasty".

Holy crap I have an idea! Start a business where you try the women out first, and then give a review to their potential mate. It could be a gold mine!

My brother learned that the hard way. Got his now wife pregnant on the first go and they didn't get to live with one another until well after my nephew was born because of military. She's not a terrible woman, but she doesn't slave away to keep a neat house (by his standards). He was also 20 when they got married and only been having sex for three years before that and I'm 110 positive he's bemoaning his lack of opportunities that he gave up doing the noble thing (by which I mean the thing he thought would keep his family approval. He's a prideful fucking snob and I'm glad I didn't grow up with his foolishness. But I digress )

The point I'm making is that it's easy to be a saint in paradise. Fun dates are necessary to form good memories, but there are things that people cannot compromise on. It's best to find out those things before getting divorced and losing half your shit or worse, being stuck with them till one of you die.

Arranged marriages work best. There's no love or jealousy to get in the way.

I think most of the argument against living together before marriage is that most couples (#notallcouples) tend to use living together as an excuse (maybe not an explicit one) to not have serious conversations about life goals, finances, kids, etc. So you live together for a couple years and then assume you know everything, but people have different ideas of what married life is going to be like.

As awkward as it is, I do endorse those "conversations before marriage" books because they help guide you through those conversations, and if you and your partner understand each other well enough to say "we're in this together, let's be awkward together," that's a good first step.

In arranged marriages you generally have both families with a vested interest in the success of the marriage so there is often massive extended family support for the new couple. That can go a long way to smooth things over.

Maybe you are.

Dayton never married for love. I think your words are wasted.

What @shootER said.

There's plenty of people out there that are very good at hiding their true selves. They put on an act or a show to present themselves in the best possible light. But after marriage, or even after moving in together their true self comes out. They can have all sorts of issues that come out. Maybe they leave dishes in the sink, are complete slobs, maybe they're an alcoholic, drug addict, etc..

One girl I lived with, I knew she would have a drink or two when we went out to dinner. No big deal, I'd have a drink or two, or three, sometimes more. So would she. It wasn't until later after we moved in together that I realized she enjoyed drinking too much. At first it was once or twice a month she'd get shitfaced. Later on it was a few times, eventually it became something of an almost nightly habit. And she went from being a fun drunk to a mean and nasty one.

That can be solved, if they want to do it for themselves. You can't force them, and there comes a point where you have to decide between yourself and them. And if you decide for them, they won't change. And then you'll grow to hate them, despise them, and then you either stay or leave. If you're smart you leave.

Some things can be lived with, some things you can accept. But not everything, not if you want to be happy.

Well.... he did say this.

That is a lie.

No. It's a valid inference from the available data. If it happens not to be true that's because you've lied and been believed.

How can it possibly be a remotely true inference.?