Shooting at Florida high school

Most of the issues I saw, and my own for that matter, with "safe spaces" had nothing to do with bullying and everything about evading differing viewpoints and concrete reality.

Bullying has been an issue for a long time - kids are basically sociopaths until their brains have settled on acceptable boundaries, and a combination of social patriarchal "stiff upper lip" views and an educational system not willing to tackle bullying has allowed it to be regarded as part of growing up.

They're two separate issues, although there can be overlap (a relative is bullied due to her being LGBT, where the bullying needs to be dealt with, she shouldn't be quarantined from views against LGBT because she's going to need to know how to tackle them as an adult).

In the UK the education system has even neutered the most effective way to stop bullying - the target giving at least one of the bullies some pain (whereupon the dumber bullies go to find easier pickings, the smarter ones have a few neurons triggered suggesting that maybe being hurt isn't nice, and it may be advantageous to not hurt others so they don't feel obliged to return the favour.) Kids now have "permanent records" that record their behaviour and can have an effect on what next level education they can move on to, so the bullied are expected to just suck it up so as not to harm their future, and the bullies get to leave school with the view that bullying is fine mostly intact.

I'm sure that bodes well for the future.

I see Trump was being very political over this, shutting the hell up and let the White House praise the 1st. That's a political tightrope he can't keep on forever.

Whilst I don't see any changes in the 2nd any time soon, if I was in the NRA's boots I'd be looking at the marches and seeing a bleaker future. 30 or 40 years down the line those marching will be the older voters of that era, and many may even have taken many of the various routes to legislative power at some scale. And whilst no doubt life will have eroded some views and ethics, I don't see them being as easy to buy off as today politicians.

Because when we try to come up with any solution that doesn't involve more gun restrictions, we're insulted and dismissed.

CNN reported on steps the government was going to take like banning bump-stocks (don't care) and vastly increasing information available to the NICS background checks (fine by me), and a couple of other things, and of course, they then say, "critics say it's not enough!"

Because nothing is ever enough for them.

You have to remember that the best way to win a public debate is to, as quickly as possible, frame the debate so that your opponent is automatically on the back foot by ensuring they look in the worst possible light.

That way, whilst you get all your available time to get your points across, your opponent has to spend half their time batting off insinuations, before they get chance to make a point or counter one. It's especially good when it actually does trigger the genuine crazies, as that can be used to insinuate across the board that everyone holding that view is a crazy. If there are deaths involved, especialy those of children, your average spin doctor will likely be very happy, as you've got a pile of dead human shields to deflect anything too nasty, whilst ensuring you are free to deliver anything you wish.

The gun debate is unusual only in that the nature of guns ensures the anti-gun lobby holds a lot of cards in that regard, and - were it not for the US' history, the cowboy mythology and the romanticism of the gun - they'd have won it a long time ago. I don't think the current anger is enough to create real change, I think we'll be right back here again next year, and the year and the year after that. In another quarter of a century or so that may change.

I seem to remember a lot of people saying the same thing about gay marriage ten years ago and here we are.

But I think the biggest reason there's been push back is just the ugliness of the last two years, politically. Trump doesn't spew anything unique to the GOP, he just puts them out in his own crass, tactless manner that makes it hard for anyone to ignore. Even some of my more center right veteran fans are pissed that he can't ever shut the fuck up.

To put it in context: around this time in Bush's first term, we'd all mostly moved past the circumstances surrounding his election. There was no discussion on women's rights or gay rights or changing anything in the status quo. And certainly 9/11 was a unifier in that regard. But most of the Bush caricatures and the true hatred didn't begin in earnest until after he'd been elected properly this time.

But I digress. With the protesting being led by wealthy white kids, big name companies leading the charge to raise the age of who they sell weapons to, the current buffoon in office who makes Bush look like Stephen Hawking in comparison and cultural apathy to gun ownership, the change may happen as quickly as support for gay rights did.

Stupid, comical children...

What's odd about the Wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas) is that it doesn't mention either Columbine or Adam Lanza. Could it be they're only counting adult shooters?

58 victims. This isn't a contest.

I see Santorum has been furthering the internet meme regarding his surname by suggesting that, instead of asking the government to pass laws to protect them, these kids should be learning CPR and other ways of dealing with "active shooter situations".

Umm, how about NO BECAUSE THEY'RE KIDS AND THEY SHOULD BE WORRYING ABOUT GRADES, RELATIONSHIPS AND TWENTY FUCKING OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN "HOW DO I DEAL WITH A SHOOTER?"?!!!

Christ, if you ever needed proof that Republicans care jack shit about the sanctity of life once it's been squeezed/cut out of mom's belly, there it fucking is. "Take personal responsibility for defending yourself from the school shooter, kids! We're not gonna help ya!"

You also have to wonder how he thinks you can give CPR to someone with a chest wound.

I'm fairly sure he and most of his buddies could take a headshot with no lasting damage (or at least discernable effects on brain function) so perhaps that's what he's on about?

Just surprised he knows what a heart is. At best, his is hidden away in a trunk somewhere while a ritual gemstone occupies the resulting chest cavity.

I fully support you guys working to get what you feel are good gun safety policies in place.

Just don't expect that to stop us from working to get what we feel are good gun safety policies in place.

He probably assumes that if someone doesn't really want to die from a bullet, the body has ways of shutting that down.

"yes teach kids how to perform emergency medical procedures, they will surely keep a cool head and save their friends' lives with bullets whizzing past their ears" -- a man named after the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Wait, are you mocking these kids for reaching out to the lonely, unpopular kids?

"yes how dare children be nice to each other, what idiots lol" -- a man who collects deadly toys for a hobby

The problem is you and anyone else who have been brainwashed by the gun lobby think any legislation referencing guns constitutes impermissible restrictions. From those of us calling for gun regulations, there is a wide array of possible solutions, a lot of which we can recognize reasonable compromises for. Banning all weapons is unrealistic, but there are certain weapons that are realistic to ban (and actually have been banned). Background checks and waiting periods are also widely seen as a reasonable method for ensuring a controlled distribution of guns.

For you and your fellow gun hobbyists, you simply aren't willing to compromise. The conversation stops when your stance is "no laws." That comes from a mix of gun lobby brainwashing and losing one's ability to think critically about these issues by feeding off the other gun hobbyists in one's bubble. Your inability to compromise pushes those advocating gun control further away from the center and makes you/pro-gunners come across as unhinged and irrational.

So, @Forbin, besides hiding in your bathtub, whining on WF, and anyone whose words scare you, what are you doing to promote good gun safety policies?

Just because it worked at Thurston when Kip Kinkel went nuts doesn't mean it'll work in other school shootings. In fact, it shouldn't have worked at Thurston.

Umm, how about NO BECAUSE THEY'RE KIDS AND THEY SHOULD BE WORRYING ABOUT GRADES, RELATIONSHIPS AND TWENTY FUCKING OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN "HOW DO I DEAL WITH A SHOOTER?"?!!!

well you are absolutely 100 percent correct! (I'm imagining Negan's voice saying this). Because statistically nearly every kid will be affected by grades, relationships and twenty fucking other things. At least 90 percent of any high school. But what are the fucking mathematical odds that any individual student will get shot while attending school? One in 100? One in 1,000? One in 100,000? Nearly every high school in the US has had students killed in fatal vehicle accidents at some point. So is that one of those "twenty fucking other things" a student should worry about? Or should they only worry about what the media tells them to worry about? Don't they teach math in school these days? Crunch some numbers and bounce the total number of high school students against how many are killed in school shootings. You might as well piss yourself in the fetal position over lightning strikes and rabid fox attacks while you're at it. No offense if you already do BTW, I fully expect it.

No, I MADE this suggestion earlier, and people told me it was a stupid idea. I'm mocking the people who told me this was a stupid idea, and pointing out that it's actually being done.

See above.

The problem is EVERYone is unable to compromise. As I said above, someone proposes new laws, the grabbers say "That's not enough!" Every. Time. We therefore know it will NEVER be enough, ever, for them. THAT is what results in the pro-gun side locking the brakes.

Ah, okay. It looked like you were making fun of the kids reaching out to others, which seemed rather unForbin-like. Good to hear.

A child reaching out to another child is a great thing and should be encouraged, not mocked.

An adult presenting this as the solution to school shootings, on the other hand, deserves to be shamed publicly and mercilessly, for they are hiding laziness and privilege behind idiocy.

No you see this is why all of these school shooters come from typically picked on groups like LGBTQ, minorities, girls, etc.

Oh wait

Sadly I "reached out to others" and got slapped with a restraining order.

Three inches is hardly reaching.

For them it was.