Can Kids Consent to Hormone Blockers?

You know what @Tererun , for the longest time I dismissed you and you dismissed me, but I think we’re making progress. More than can say about others on this board.

That means you are a fucxking idiot. She is misrepresenting the facts and is lying. This is the basic process of changing your gender. One should at least look up the actual process for getting your gender legally changed before arguing things that do not actually happen.

This again shows your lack of ability to judge the character of people. You are a fucking moron, and she ios a lying sack of scum spreading falsehoods that you just go say you are the opposite gender and can rape people. Fuck that bitch and the horse she rode in on named dickynu.

I never know when I'm gonna get sane Tererun, or "Sleepy Joe is a rapist, and I fucking hate you all" Tererun.
I got the latter just now.
That'll teach me to be reasonable.

Desnyin people access to a bathroom or shelter because someone might someday do something bad is the straw man. You just got caught in your bullshit. A woman could rape or assault another woman in the bathroom or a shelter. That has happened. Should we stop women from going to the bathroom because they might have a catfight in there while doing their make up?

Shelters have fights all the time because people have mental issues, drug problems, or drama. Those are in single gender shelters also. Your strawman is shit.

yes, a shelter should have security for abuses that go on. You admit none of those abuses come from trans women. There is probably a psychological fear of being outed which causes a trans woman to be more concerned about getting into a fight in a shelter. Just the prejudice of the cops towards a trans woman involved in an assault tends to keep them wary of getting into one.

Do you think trans women do not get raped? Sodomizing a trans woman for having the nerve to be trans is a cis male thing. They are in need of shelters because of violent cis men who will rape them and kill them as punishment. Why make new shelters for a small population when you could easily put them in a safe area for women where there should be guards and supervision to make sure rapy cis males do not get in?

Again I will also remind you that the HRT for a trans woman involves the destruction of the libido and the end of ejaculation and the potential end of orgasm. Chemical castration and the lowering of the libido through hormonal interference is a method we suggest to sexual predators for rehabilitation of their compulsions. I am not saying it ends sexual desire, but it sure as fuck puts your dick to sleep.

The peoploe arguing with you here are far from educated. Yopu are arguing with straw men you copied from other people and have failed to educate yourself on. You use what if's like they are proof. Then you have the nerve to tell other people their arguments are shit when you cannot even produce one instance of trans people assaulting others in a shelter, when there are assaults going on in shelters as we speak?

You are correct, shelters are not an overly safe place. If society6 gave a fuck they would contribute more to social safety nets and assistance in hiding women who have stalkers, abusive husbands, and religious enemies. We should have enough to house women in their own space under protected conditions. Even then the cis male community is still a danger to them. Before you worry so much about something that never happens, perhaps you should work harder on keeping women, and trans women, safe from violent cis men who are the real problem that shelters have to worry about.

Just figure when you whine about my treatment of your shitty friends you are going to get hit with the flamethrower.

I find it telling that everyone who brought up that canard always site the one only known instance of a trans woman in Toronto, Canada in 2007 who raped others in the shelter.

People can be predators, regardless of gender, but this has happened as often as people have survived both Hiroshima AND Nagasaki in documented history.

Hi, @Summerteeth! Good to see you back around. It's me, Chaos Descending, aka Sean the Irish Bastard, aka Sean the Puritan. You once mailed me a box of Monster Munch and Jelly Babies!

Oh right, I suppose I should announce myself as Anna Yolei, who found a better permanent name than Lou the Beagle

I did click the link, and I clicked their "Viewpoints" page. They presuppose that gender dysphoria should not be treated medically. It is one of their core guiding principles. The organization cannot be convinced otherwise by evidence, even if, perhaps, some of its members can. But they did at least link to a real paper in a real peer-reviewed journal, so let's take a look at that.

First, what is the paper? It's an interview/questionnaire (questionnaires used for respondents who couldn't speak English well enough to be interviewed) survey of 36 professionals in the field (encompassing endocrinologists, psychologists, psychiatrists, ethicists, and pediatricians) on 17 different gender dysphoria treatment teams in 10 countries (two teams split between interview and questionnaire). The questions were devised after a literature review, and this is somewhat borne out in the bibliography. What's that mean? It means we can take as truthful that the interviewees believe what they said. We don't know how much (self-)selection bias there is in the interviewees, but the questions were probably pretty thorough. We can't say for sure that the interviewees are representative of the profession, but there's nothing obviously inherently biased. We can also take that the interviewees believe what they say. We cannot take what they say as scientific truth, however; this paper is reporting on how professionals are thinking, not on the accuracy of that thought, though the literature that's cited is useful here.

All that in mind, what do we have? Most teams are cautious but still very willing to use puberty blockers. One or two teams are not. Multiple teams actually started using puberty blockers for treatment during the course of the interviews. The teams that are not are unwilling to do so because they are concerned that "'I believe that, in adolescence, hypothalamic inhibitors should never be given, because they interfere not only with emotional development, but [also] with the integration process among the various internal and external aspects characterizing the transition to adulthood.'", however the rest of the interviewees disagreed or had more qualified concerns, like that GD-diagnosed kids who ended up being gay or lesbian might not have ended up that way given puberty blockers.

The only concrete answer to the question of "are puberty blockers harmful in and of themselves?" was not in a response to an interview question, but rather in the literature review:

The bold parts are scientific facts. The underlined parts are opinions. The opinions are perfectly reasonable. Caution is fine. It's being exercised, and you'd know that if you bothered to read the paper.

So maybe the better question is: Did you bother to read it? Did you bother to read that the people who are prescribing and treating don't do so unless they're more confident than a single diagnosis that gender dysphoria is actually what's going on? No, I don't think you did. Or at best, you read the first three quotes from the psychologist and psychiatrist(s?), and decided their thoughts were gospel truth regardless of the (sparse, but extant) evidence.

Hi it's me Tamar Garish, back from the dead to haunt you with your deepest darkest secrets.

What is a sex offender in their study? There is a big difference between being a sex worker, as many poor trans people are criminalized for, and being a rapist or child molester. Again, you with the fuzzy bullshit. How many of these sex offenders are there for indecent exposure laws which might have been triggered by false complaints of flashing, or skimpy female attire for the purposes of prostitution or at a party?

I got falsely accused of flashing some old karen in a walmart. She came up to me before she went to security and said she was going to get me. In the end she was ticketed by cops for making a false complaint because there was video and I was wearing some thick ass bloomers.

Are these trans people rapists? Are they abusers? or are they there for being trans.

Oh, and welcome back. Your old friends are here, but this is not the same old right wing hatefest it used to be. You are going to have to do better with your lies and bullshit. I am actually transgendered and have actual knowledge of what you are speaking of.

Now do go fuck yourself, and have dickanal watch.

You're right, I DON'T know a lot about it, I've said as much. But, I do think you are misrepresenting me.

Self-id is currently being pushed for here under the Gender Recognition Act 2004. Under the former Prime Minister, Teresa May plans were put in place to allow people to change gender without medical diagnosis, but it was shelved by Boris Johnson's government because of the questions I've repeated above. Self-id is apparently tacitly already in place in some UK institutions such as women's prisons, as evidenced by the case of Karen White and the recent High Court case. So I don't think the issue of cis men (autogynephiles) attacking women is an invented one, if there are cases that I've heard of to back that up and it's been reported that transgender people are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks in women's prisons.

My worry is if this is happening in places like prisons, where all instances are recorded and documented as matter of course of being institutions, then what is happening in refuges?

I've not mentioned bathrooms once, and don't think anyone really cares about bathrooms to be honest. I think transwomen get a rough time, and I want that to change, but I want to know how we can find a solution to also keep women safe from predatory autogynephiles because self-id IS a thing outside of legislation, as shown above, even in our institutions. Trying to get people to capitulate by throwing around the word transphobia solves naught and does both groups of women - cis and trans - a huge disservice.

A sex offender is someone who has been convicted of committed sexual assault, which could include flashing I guess, but given the overcrowded prisons and CJS, it would be highly unlikely someone would be put in prison for indecent exposure, especially accidental.

It is not made clear that the new effects and studies involve the use of these puberty blockers on younger people for the purposes of blocking puberty. There are older medicines that have undergone studies with their effects on humans of all ages. These substances did not just pop up as it seems to imply when you do not put them in medical context.

Yes, there should be some study on the effects of these substances on trans people as there are a number of medical issues regarding proper dosages, and there will be more prescription to people of a younger age. However, these drugs already have a history of safe prescription. Even when there are dangers like with the prescription of Birth control to trans females and things like cancer, especially in people who smoke, doctors can mitigate and monitor for the onset of side effects.

I will also say we need better overall systems of monitoring these things. I knew Yaz was going to fuck women up when they were marketing it as low dose BC that was safer because it was low dose. The idea that low dose was safer when the product was not properly monitored which caused problems with potassium spikes and the problems that go along with that were ovberlooked by doctors with women. I was not harmed because as a trans person taking it my doctor tested my blood monthly for these effects and discovered it. Doctors who prescribe these hormones for men are under massive scrutiny and potential liability so they cover their ass more.

These realities are contradicted in the lies from the right and that is expounded by ignorant spreading of falsehoods to straight people by lazy journalists and rumor mongers. At least ask actual doctors and patients who deal with this. Look up the chemicals to find out what you are talking about.

This is my complaint with joe rogan now. The dude is educated enough to read some medical information about the development of men and woman and even trans people in a physical sense to make an informed decision regarding the safety of beating each other up. He obviously looked up information about these terms. Did he not look up the medical information about the most common testosterone blocker being a blood pressure medication? That might actually be an issue for a fighter. Did he not look up the fact the female hormones are Birth control? These are not new things. That really effects my opinion of joe of being educated when he misses obvious shit. That tells me his knowledge is lacking and he probably should not be calling himself and expert even in MMA medical safety areas.

I only have your manipulative words and bullshit to use to judge you. I am not your friend, nor do I have any history with you but the trash you are spitting here do promote right wing anti-trans hate and fear. No, I am not nice to assholes who push bullshit like that.

Do you know why self-id is often used? It is because there was a huge right wing bias in medicine that sought to identify trans people as sexual deviants who rape and molest who are in need of curing. It was the lies and abuses of the right wing religious intrusion into medicine that was abusing trans people and forcing people to have to avoid bigoted gatekeepers who denied them treatment and the ability to be themselves. So that was a solution made to combat your transphobic bullshit. Do not put trans people identifying themselves over your oppression on trans people. Blaming trans people having to be themselves despite the oppression of their abusers is victim blaming.

Oh, and thanks for promoting that hate filled lie and manipulation yet again you transphobis asswipe. If I have misjudged you then you would shut the fuck up and listen a little instead of spouting that bullshit yet again.

Do you know how many trans people end up dead or beaten because they need shelters? They are not the abusers. They are people who not only get killed by the bigots, but they get sexually mauled and sodomized because their attackers are sick. These are people tossed out by their families and refused jobs, food, and shelter by society. You want to take away shelter for them because of a lie that you cannot show any evidence of.

Do you understand why I think you are a horrible POS? Yet again I look around here and wonder what type of friends some of you people accept. Why don't we just have sprained dumbass and storm back here? Then you can all say hi to your old racist friends too.

I am assuming you have national health care for everyone? Then have it be that you give out assistance to trans people, and you get them on a medical track that is established. Some 40 year old dude pops into a woman's shelter wearing a dress and has no history of ever telling a doctor they are trans, then you deny them. OTOH if some woman comes in who is on HRT and is living as a woman though she might have a withered and barely working penis, you let her in. She has a history of getting medicine for her condition. I will also let you know, that person receiving HRT to become a woman has lowered her libido and the working of her penis if she still has one. This is why she is safer than some cis man.

Yes, you have to self identify as trans. No one else should ever be telling another person they are trans against their own self evaluation. Every trans person has to do that. It is necessary so a person is not abused by another forcing them to be the wrong gender. I do not ever want a doctor or parent forcing a child to be the wrong gender. It fucking sucks.

bloody hell.

So the bigoted motherfuckers in Arkansas actually did it - and the Gov will surely sign.

"Protect the kids" they say. Bullshit. It's about ALL of us.

Don't believe me? This, from the bill:



the fact that those evil bastards in found some justification to include this passage in the bill - listing off a serious of transition related surgeries (in the most negative terms) WHICH ARE NOT FUCKING AVAILABLE TO MINORS IN ANY CASE tells you all you need to know about where they are going.

Self-ID arises from the deliberate institutionalized (and getting worse) barriers to equity of care and acceptance. Both in your country and mine powerful forces are working to strip us of that little which we have obtained. If it were as easy to get identified as trans and appropriately treated as, say, diabetes, and just as unremarkable to society at large, then there would be more cause for skepticism of self-ID.

We're literally out here trying to survive. And part of that if fending off a tsunami of deliberate lies from TERFs and Pharisees who spread mountains of bullshit knowing that the average voter, such as yourself, is ill-equipped to discern a legitimate pattern of concern from completely made up noise.

For example - and I know you're not expressing bathroom concerns but hear me out because the bathroom battle is a perfect example of using a torrent of lies to try and create a public perception of a problem (that didn't actually exist) in order to justify the need for government restrictions.

The Family Research Council is one of the most powerful Christian Nationalist outfits we have (other than CNP which is an umbrella organization that coordinates a multitude of Pharisee groups here and abroad). FRC published, a few years back, a policy paper with a long bullet point list of legislative goals designed to basically make public life as a trans person impossible legally. It's not an inference, that's their openly stated goal. it is they and their sister organizations that ran the bathroom campaign, and it is they who write and peddle the current wave of anti-trans bills targeting kids all across the U.S. This is not an isolated problem they want to solve, it's the beta test for the broader campaign - when one of these issues sticks, it will be proof of concept and they'll work on the other items (some of which are also regularly introduced looking for a soft target state).

That same FRC - back during the bathroom campaign - published a list of, they said, over a hundred examples that prove the danger of trans women in restrooms, at the least that we'd be an opening for predatory men to profess being trans in order to gain access. What they knew is that for persuadable "Christian" or other "concerned" voters, THEY WOULDN'T ACTUALLY READ THE LIST. Because after all, surely this is a trustworthy source right?

But I did. In a list that included cases from 2017 back over a decade - with a couple of odd balls all the way back in 2004 - when you filter out all the cases that were not relevant at all, killers in prison who professed to be trans and such like - one of them was literally a college panty raid in England! - and the cases that didn't support the claim, such as a cis dude slipping in without disguise to hide a camera, or someone standing outside a dressing room holding a camera over the wall... there were EIGHT cases in mover a decade of some male wearing ANY item of women's wear who in ANY way were found in a ladies room - and one of the 8 I allowed them was a flasher who was chased in their by security, another was a man who somehow pulled girls panties on over his male clothing - less than one case on average a year. Found by a group highly motivated to find every case which supported their claim.
And they didn't correlate with local laws being trans favorable or not.

But still they SAID they found over a hundred cases which proved their point. And were cited in debates as having done so.
One of these CN outfits literally had an internal document leaked that completely admitted they had made up the bathroom predator thing and had no actual evidence for it but they found it effectively emotionally manipulative so they used it anyway.

TLR -THEY LIE! CONSTANTLY! ABOUT EVERYTHING! Because they have no real moral objective, only power.

And they train - literally - anti-trans bigots in Britain to do the same thing. Imagine lesbians, themselves just as much broken sinners as we in the eye of the Pharisees, being so desperately transphobic that they come over hear and partner with and learn from our Christian Nationalist monsters so they can take the most effective set of lies back to Britain, all the while insisting they have no use for those religious types in America.

The point of this is when you hear the stories of all the bad things that have, or can, or will happen because self-UD....

Be very VERY VERY careful on your source for such claims.
Again, Trans people are not out here saying "how can we grease the skids for perverts to harm women - we're out here trying to SURVIVE in the face of a highly organized and extremely well funded campaign to erase us from public life. Consider the motives of the folks on either side.

Also, the objection presumes that it is better than any number - hundreds at least if not thousands - of trans women endure exactly the same dangers and risks that every woman in that shelter is their to escape and whatever violence or death or whatever happens, oh well, but at least we theoretically keep out that one in a million predator who might have gotten in and might have gotten away with harming someone already here.
And that cis women never harm each other.

Rather like the Arkansas bill. Sure, an unknown number of trans kids may well eat a bullet, but that's an acceptable price to pay to further our political careers.

Thank you @Nova, yours was a response I was particularly interested in hearing. I hope I haven't been too clumsy in making it sound like I'm attacking transwomen, to the contrary as I think I said, I believe transwomen to very much be victims.

I don't believe that women's rights and trans rights are mutually exclusive, but I do think there needs to be clarification about what is in place because of biological sex, and what is in place because of gender identity. I asked 14thDoctor upthread, but wonder what you think - do you believe there is a need to segregate based on biological sex? And if not, why not?

so an entire class of people gets to be publicly delegitimized, have their entire lives put at risk, and be scorned out of public life (because that IS what the Pharisees want) based on the theoretical potential someday somehow possibility that a thing that has never happened, is wildly impractical and unrealistic, and would constitute the rarest of outliers even if it did appear...doesn't happen?

Which, of course, all the laws in the world wouldn't stop such a dude if he were determined - dudes already blunder into female spaces and do harm from time to time, no elaborate disguise employed.

Gotta think this shit through my dude.

Indeed - but here's the thing: for women who are not already indoctrinated into the theology that trans women are always and ever men even if I'm gonna be nice about it....THOSE women are perfectly fine with a trans woman (if indeed they realize she's trans) in such spaces.
It's the ones who've had their heads filled with that particularl lie - that she's REALLY a man and might rape you! - in order to make them pliable fearful voters for the right politicians, or followers of the right church, or both, who are fearful. The long term solution is to erase the bigotry, not the trans women.

Consider this: let's pick up at, say, 1950. Upwards of 90% of white people in the south, and a majority anywhere in the country you go, were convinced to the very marrow of their bones that not only was it deeply immoral and offensive to God for them to share spaces with blacks but that it was literally dangerous. Even the negro women. Even their kids. The craziest possible shit you could imagine would be doing away with segregation. It's a big part of why they lost their goddamn minds when it started happening.
You know how that got better?
They had to live through it and see for themselves that black people wouldn't rape and murder them the first time they got a chance.
EXPERIENCE taught them, against their will, that the Danger they had been taught to believe was a lie.

And that's the only way we come out with a culture in which trans people are not a pariah.

In the absence of some previous offense that demonstrates a particular individual, on a case by case basis, is reasonably possibly a danger...

In the absence of a medical situation where knowledge of the individuals history is necessary to proper care, there's virtually no situation where segregation based on "biology" (which, by the way, is a much more loaded term than you realize but i understand this sort of discussion has some awkwardness) is objectively warranted. There are some considerations that cis people find it very difficult to process.

For example, I posses (for, all things go well, about 5 more months) and unfortunate bit of anatomy I was born with.
Like the almost unanimous majority of trans women on HRT it is both utterly useless for any act which might be considered dangerous and I have utter disinterest in having such an ability. People watch "tranny porn" and thing that artificially created ability (basically in most cases for the purpose of having a survivable income under the circumstances and one day being able to do something about it) is what your average trans woman can do. ludicrous. Neither can nor want to. My shit hasn't been even slightly responsive in over 7 years.

But it's there so...."biological"...
Also, that particular bit of junk? We ourselves can't stand to see that shit in the mirror without getting depressed - the LAST thing we want to do is show it to strangers!

But it's there... see where I'm going with this? It's segregation to solve a problem that practically CAN'T exist.

Also also? if you DID segregate on the basis of genitalia...how do you enforce it? I could easily lie in almost any situation short of getting arrested and searched. Is that what we'd be doing? And how many cis women get searched because they are not sufficiently feminine to avoid suspicion - because that's a thing that's happened several times.

Also also also - what of trans men? if you sort by genitals you'll find that the majority of trans men, who in all other respects look entirely masculine, still have a vagina (because FTM GRS is wildly expensive and not all that satisfying in its result) - but "biology" says these dudes go in with the women... hows that for being uncomfortable? Again, without inspection, how do you KNOW the hairy jock before you wasn't born with a vagina after all?

All these complications ensue because we're paranoid about something that happens so rarely as to be basically non-existant. I get that some have well-intentioned concerns but in almost every case those concerns arise from the propaganda of bad actors trying to manipulate a political outcome - to wit, the illegality of being trans in public. And if anything British TERFs are even more irrationally passionate about this than our Pharisees (the latter don't REALLY care, they just need a scapegoat and were easy - TERFs are god-damn SERIOUS)

I've seen screenshots of their message boards and such and - YIKES! No more connected to reality than any Qanon crowd.

About the word biology:
Being trans IS biological. It's probably a form of being intersex but it's not good to appropriate their word. A trans girl IS a biological girl, just with the unfortunate birth defect of male phenotype.

And there's that too - Phenotype as opposed to genotype (which is also not a smooth binary but let's avoid THAT tangent for now) - the former is just as much a function of biology as the latter. By the end of the year my phenotype will be uniformly, biologically, female. When right wingers and TERFs say "biological male" what they are messaging is "you're still a dude, always will be dude, we're not part of your web of lies"

What we used for clarity of conversation is AMAB - Assigned male at birth (and I, in my lonely room, keep screaming it would message better if it was ASSUMED not ASSIGNED but that ship has sailed) - and AFAB.

Don't get me wrong, I think you get duped by a lot of right wing bullshit. Because of that you drag in some insulting views, but I probably drag in some insulting views to who you are also based on my experiences. I can deal with you because you try. Even if the things are a bit angry, if you can still come away with a better point of view because of new experiences, then the world is better. I do not hate, even though I seem like it at times, every midwestern or southerner there is. I just put on my don't fuck with me jacket and tread into the conversation. I get that it is hard to keep from reacting when everyone is bashing the fuck out of you. I have just come to the conclusion I like to say shit and that is my purpose for being here. Friends will either come or go, and I am not here for popularity like some on the left are.

I will also admit I hate uppity judgmental lefties as much as I hate the uppity judgmental righties. There are a couple of stereotypical SJW lefties around here who need that stick pulled out. You can take far more criticism than a dickanal or garamet, but you also seem to get a whole lot more than they do. It makes it seem like you are a bit more of a "crybaby" than they are, but they cannot handle shit that comes at them. If Garamet or dickanal ever took the amount of abuse you did for their stupidity their heads would explode.

No.

We know this. We know it because gender dysphoria and and does appear in preschoolers, and that it can and usually does presist for half a decade or more BEFORE puberty.
AND

We have an overwhelming sample of people who did NOT get blockers, and effectively all of them remained dysphoric (even busted ass Ken Zucker admitted that a child who reached puberty professing a consistent trans identity would almost never desist)

Likewise we have a significant and growing cohort of those who have. There's no objective medical reasons to suspect that those who did get blockers only persisted because of the blockers. The other cohort proves the contrary.

I would have to ask about that again because you seem to be gathering your information from intentionally manipulative sources. The right wing loves to manipulate stats to lump trans people in with rapists and molesters. This is a constant thing they do to demonize the community.

They also are connected with groups that provide shelter and have religious motivations to toss out GLBT people so they look for legitimacy to back their prejudice. So they will mislead people with incorrect correlations between the trans community and sexual predators. They want to throw out trans people from shelters because of jesus, but they know that will be shot down, so they make up shit about trans people being sexual deviants and about assaulting women. That is what people like Boris are guilty of and why you need to confirm these abuses are actually going on.

I will totally agree that a criminal with a conviction of sexually assaulting women should not be housed in the general population of a female correctional facility. There should be higher security areas where that person is housed with better security. Maybe there is a huge fuck up in the UK criminal classification system. But you need to look across the whole spectrum and see where the problem is. I will also point out that prison is a much more tricky area where sexual activity becomes more violent or sought after due to the controls placed upon inmates. It is a freedom they are denied in general which is why you find cis straight people who engage in homosexual and transgendered activity in prison when they do not outside of prison.

You really have to dig a lot deeper on these issues when you start getting into them due to the amount of intentionally misleading information that is out there. The right relies on you to spread their abuse. If you are truly an ally and I have misjudged you there is a reason. That reason is because you are bringing abusive and incorrect material here for the right wing. It is like if I carried a confederate flag to a party full of black americans. It is offensive and as an ally I would never do such a thing or defend slavery or the confederacy. You are bringing this right wing propaganda and fear mongering here and shouting it at people. What is the difference between you and a transphobe?

If you are embarassed and bothered by this, do educate yourself on the truth, and then go throw it back on your sources because they suck. If you are just going to keep on spouting their bullshit then I am going to call it your bullshit and do go fuck yourself.

Not even a little bit.

it's too late for me to get wordy again but she's basically gone full TERF, giving credibility and oxygen to the most passionate anti-trans garbage the UK has to offer because she's the nice respectable celebrity who's "just concerned" and therefore if you attack her - and by extension her allies - well then clearly it's you in the wrong.

BTW

I am so happy for you regarding this and hope that all goes well.

The rest of it is as always said very well and does not need any addition from me.

I'm trying y'all but this thread is SO emotionally exahusting. More so in the context of the open war on trans people that's ramping up in both countries.

Plus, it's late.

Since it was brought up again.

JK went out of her way to insert herself into other people being themselves. She deserves what she got for that. Had she stayed in her lane saying trans women should not be a substitute for cis women over all I am awesome with that statement. If she left it right there I would be fighting like hell for her, even though I hate the HP books. If TERFs stopped there I am totally with them. When you get into playing the victim and pretending you are being erased by people who actually think being women is admirable and cool you are a moron. To go further and attack the trans community receiving treatments which help them so much in feeling better about themselves is just sick. She needed to be punched back. Not in the actual punching her physically, but certainly much harder than pushed in a figurative sense.

yes, I am still saying part of her stance needs to be heard that we cannot substitute the experience and knowledge of a trans person with a cis person. Like saying BLM that also says trans experience and views matter as a part of our society.