Wut? Didn't you say we trained OBL? Didn't you say that he involved himself with America? I'm just asking for specifics, because this is all news to me.
If I thought there was any sort of honesty in that i would participate, but all you do is attempt to derail and bring up pointless tangents so I accept your surrender and I got better things to do than to play dishonest games with you. Do better at trolling dumbass. It is not that I don't go down dumbass rabbit holes with people, but your trolling sucks. @14thDoctor is so much better at this than you. At least he is somewhat interesting to play with, but you are like fucking a log.
I'm not trolling, and I'm not derailing. You brought up Rambo playing Goat Head with the Mujahideen, not me. I'm just wondering where you got the idea that OBL was trained, equipped, whatever by the US, which YOU claimed. I'm just asking for some more info.
Yes you are doing both. If you weren't I could not so easily fool you into playing fetch while I hold the tennis ball behind my back.
Oh, so it was all just a trick! You were PRETENDING to be a fucking idiot. Well played! I totally fell for it.
Oh, I am sorry boy, are you mad at me for foolin with you? Maybe tomorrow I will throw the ball for you, or maybe i will just get a hat trick. This would be a lot harder if you people would get the vaccination for TDS.
It says something that I didn't even need to click "view ignored content" to know exactly who you were talking to.
How can I be mad at you. You got me good. You had me convinced that you were too stupid to pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. But it was all a trick! Good job.
I do have to wonder what the point of ignoring someone is when you make a lot of extra effort for yourself to view what they say. It just always seems like you are punishing yourself when you still want to see what the other person says.
Back on topic. If you want better things in places like afganistan you do not get it by parking your killers on the corner with the big guns. That is just putting up a big old colonizer sign. What the world should do is recognize change comes from within and the people have to fight for it. That actually means having a fight. A fight will be bloody and messy, but in the end it will bring the inevitable evolution. So what do we do? Make inroads with technology, infrastructure, and corporate trade. They need to have a middle class with something to strive for aside from god and children. Only the elites seem to have riches over there. This is a problem because when you have a small minority with all the goodies then you can shut out your female population. When you have available goods and life improving opportunities that are abundant, then women start asking questions like why can't they do those things. While we are at it we should help flood their media with views of the outside world people like them doing well. Start showing their kids what they could have and the religious right is denying them. It works everywhere else, and it will work on them. You have to make enemies of the church, or in their case the orthodox leadership of Islam. You have to do that in a social way, and not some terrorist way. That is going to take generations, which means it will take years. During that time they will do violence to stop it just like europe and america have gone through, and are going through. You do not put that progress on the side of the colonizers because that just works for the conservatives. The conservatives will try to do that on their own, so you have to have the local movement come from the local people. That means you cannot have foreigners forcing it and occupying them. Think of how Japan has made huge inroads into US culture. They did horrible things and were hated by the boomer parents. They did not invade the US with their military and force us to think highly of them. They brought us video games, fun cars, and lots of technology. Despite the anti-asian hate of COVID japanese and other asian culture is getting culturally adopted. While christianity is tanking, there are a number of asian spiritualist things that are becoming popular. We end up adopting parts of their culture real fast, and we were enemies way back in the day. We may not like China's communist government because we have communist bigotry, but I think most americans would have a huge problem if we went to war with china and were spilling their blood. This is a war of hearts and minds, and the US military killing and bombing people is losing that war.
They are one of the groups that emerged when the mujahideen splintered, as are Al Qaida. To quote @14thDoctor they are indeed in a great many cases exactly the same guys, or the next generation thereof.
Given the concern about women's rights and humanitarianism generally, we really ought to have a thread about Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
It is quite surprising how people like @14thDoctor do not care much when other nations do horrible things like that. This is why I call it an excuse and say america is not spreading equality all over the world. It is just a lie to cover up racism and hatred.
To be honest I'm no longer clear what @14thDoctor is actually arguing here. He seems to be claiming that the Taliban have no support outside of their own membership, which is patently false. Despicable as they are the Taliban are a major socio political force and denying that is why the invasion was a terrible mistake and the subsequent occupation was always going to end this way short of being a multi generational commitment. They, like many such regimes in the region going back centuries, thrive precisely because of Western interference. Resistance to military adventuring is the fertile ground in which they grow and their extremism is in many ways an illustration of that. They are what the religious right can become if mishandled, what Catholicism for many years did become in Europe. See Handmaid's Tale and, oh, quite a few history books. Making this about being "anti American" is a distraction when denying that there are deeper factors than a few hundred guys wanting to play Rambo.
Strange how no one thought to attack Saudi Arabia in 2001, what with it bring Saudi nationals who orchestrated 9/11.
@14thDoctor seems to have the same cultural blindness as many people. There is a huge lack of ability to put himself in other people's shoes and understand certain fundamental facts about people and culture. As divided as america might seem, if the world decided it was going to take us over because we are fucking things up you would see a united states of america right away. That is not to say you would not have a group of people who would not be cheering for the intervention. I coul;d get calling me a depraved immoral person if you were suffering from TDS, but to call you something like that is so awful. I know I told you that you let some of these sorts around and they will stab you and others in the back when it is convenient, but that is a horrible part of humanity and discussion groups. I really wish I was not right in that area. Look at how many people turned on @Amaris to call her a bloodthirsty commie. I admit to being a bit unstable and morally ambiguous regarding the human race, but it is obvious you fucking give a shit. There is a psychological reality that the religious right in the middle east has been far more empowered over the past century than in places like the US and europe. Their people have not yet gone through the fight against religious fascism, and things like sexist opression. That means that yes there are a ton of people who will actually fight against their own self interests because their culture has raised them to believe women are sub human in regards to men. I get there are a bunch of people who are bothered because they felt open to express their liberal ideals. I could have been the first one to warn them to not trust the allies that much in their situation because the allies are not there to give their lives for your existence. It should be noted that allies (In a cultural sense) cannot be trusted to fight for you. Even in the US the allies don't fight for your rights to exist. You have to use the courts and laws because all the allies will do is cheer and hug you. They will protest with you, but they are not going to violently force some bigot to stop being a bigot. About the best you can hope for is they will record the shit and take you to the hospital later. They were not going to fight any war for the liberal people of afganistan. That was just insane.
Do not get me wrong, I am all for finding the people who lied about the reasons we were in afganistan, and who made false promises to those people and shipping them back to explain themselves. However, I am perfectly fine with the rest of the world getting the fucking hint that the US is not sending it's military all over the place for the purposes of protecting human freedom and life. Wise the fuck up people. It might make things better if the US could not get away with these huge lies and fuck things up for everyone. Maybe we would stop shipping our violence all over the world if people would stop thinking it was good for them and say no. FFS we elected Trump and have done nothing to put any sort of test or restriction on becoming president. We are not even thinking about it. No one is even suggesting it. Even if they were it is never going to pass. So maybe relying on the nation that will let any batshit insane, corrupt, moron lead it if they can get the most village idiots to vote for them might not be what you want to do. There is no real world police. There are no gods or aliens who are going to come down and stop awful wars and things from happening when countries disagree. So it is not the fucking time to be running out into the battlefield thinking the horrors of humanity are over because the US military is in town. That is exactly what the afgan liberals did. Life isn't fair? tell that to the animals we "evolved" from.
Just slide this in here. Perhaps someone could repost this link in @14thDoctor 's face so maybe he might figure out the people there were happy to take money and jobs, but that was it. https://www.yahoo.com/news/served-afghanistan-us-marine-twice-100000389.html
Funny, It's clear you're arguing "hurr durr 'Murica bad," with everything else being decorative. So are Trumpers, but I don't see you defending them as a valid political group. Start one, unless your concern is one of those cynical "all lives matter/gun violence in Chicago" sort of distractions.
Them you aren't reading my posts properly. The Taliban do have support, bucket loads of it, across the Middle East and pretty much anywhere there's a large scale appetite to see the US humbled. You supported the mujahideen when they were a potent anti Soviet force despite them being exactly the violent, oppressive monsters we see now. The enemy of my enemy and all that. It should not, therefore, come as too much of a shock to hear it suggested the Russians might well be hiding smiles about the current situation. Iran, too, have a deeply vested interest in anything which undermines US credibility. In no way need that be ideological, merely convenient as your own support was during the Reagan years. Likewise if they lacked grassroots support in no way could they have survived and prospered as a viable force in exile, well fed, well supplied and apparently eminently capable of recruiting thousands of willing recruits. What about this is do troubling to you that you feel the need to personally insult someone for merely pointing it out? When you invaded you took on a responsibility, one which any idiot could tell you was a long term one. Leaving now, in this manner, is the worst of all possible worlds. You have inflicted a bloody war and occupation on a largely innocent people justifiable only by the humanitarian outcomes. Then you've let their oppressors back in, abandoned your charges, the women and children you undertook to protect, the army of workers and interpreters who trusted you, the government you installed and stood back as their oppressors invaded in turn to seek retribution and punish those who colluded. So yes, in this case, America bad. America very bad. EDIT: Please feel free to demonstrate where I defended the Taliban as a "valid political force"
No, my concern is that the US collaboration with woman-suppressing Saudi Arabia in starving the people of Yemen further exposes the "confronting evil" narrative as the opportunistic one that it is. And if the Afghan economy crashes because of the sanctions now to be imposed on it, will the resultant misery and starvation obtain the same level of attention (including from you) as it does when prominent political interests think the crisis now facing Afghan women should?
