Is Edward Snowden A Hero?

Yeah, huge revelation for them, I'm sure.

On the contrary. If it were that, his strategy wouldn't have worked, he would have had nothing to work with -- and we'd still be none the wiser.

MOSCOW (AP) — President Vladimir Putin grants Russian citizenship to former US security contractor Edward Snowden.

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1574430067421286401?s=46&t=qrO9M7mgXSgY089qKZjDRg

Better there than here. Our government wants to punish him for doing the right thing. He's safer there.

I'm sure he's quite vocal about the FSB, the mass unrest in Russia due to their draft, especially focusing on minorities in the East, the murdering dictator who is his sponsor, the fact that while claiming he didn't turn over data to the Russians or Chinese multiple intelligence agencies outside the US have confirmed that those two nations do have that data and it did impact the balance of power...

I mean, I'm CERTAIN he must have said something by now about the war crimes being committed by Putin's regime in Ukraine.

No?

Huh. Wonder what the difference is.

They resolve the paradox with the shit they don't say.

"The government needs to be overthrown....when it's Democrats".
"You betrayed the government whiteness".

Which does not take away from the things the US has done to its own people. That said, Snowden wouldn't be in Russia if the US hadn't revoked his international passport as he was waiting for his next flight while in Russia, and threatened any country that allowed him to fly through their airspace. So that one's entirely on the US. They let Russia have their own intelligence guy, a man who knew many of their secrets. How fucking stupid is that?

Once again, Snowden went from China to Russia, and they are the ones that ended up with our secrets.

At the behest of Assange, who is certainly a Russian asset. And Glenn Greenwald, who is now openly a pro-Russian MAGAt.

It's just possible that he was a traitor from the beginning. At absolute best he was a useful idiot.

And no one made him do what he did. He made those choices down the line.

Hell, he hasn't even produced the documentation he says he has that proves he is a whistle blower - 8 years after it was requested.

Seems he knows what bed he's made, and he's absolutely fine with sleeping in it.

And he now relies on the Russians and their murderous dictator for his well being. So he plays ball.

Some hero.

I'm not sure he's any safer in Russia. Have you seen John Oliver's interview with him? The measures he takes to avoid any potential capture is insane. I'd have been caught long ago.

Not sure I would consider him a "hero" per se. He may have done things in a way that may not have been entirely ... safe (?)/ correct(?)/ legal (?), but I do think he did what he did for altruistic reasons (knowing he would have to leave the US and be in hiding probably the rest of his life) and for that, I say he should be pardoned.

Damn, dude, you don't have to deep throat the boot.

True, the arms of the US have a very long reach. If they wanted to really instigate something with Russia, they could find a way to kidnap him from under Russia's nose and then claim they were following the demands of justice or some bullshit excuse. I do get that "hero" is kind of tossed around willy nilly these days, but I do consider what he did pretty heroic: in the interests of letting the US citizenry know what their government was doing in their lives was necessary and good, and knowing the US would come after him. So if not heroic, certainly brave to put his whole life at risk to speak the truth while being aware there would be elements in the US who would see him as a traitor.

Wow, that's ironical.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tankie

Yes, we're all aware you have the political awareness of an edgy 14 year old. You don't have to put it on display for everyone.

You started the insults.

But hey, what could I possibly have in common with a transperson who helps Republicans who destroy trans families get elected.

You are ridiculous, and remain so.

ok, but do you really think Snowden was stupid? Why? If you had evidence of the US government doing clearly unconstitutional things, how would you have handled it? and, please, don't look at Snowden and say "well, I wouldn't have done that." because that's just political bullshit clouding your rose-colored glasses. Do you not think he acted altruistically?

Showing off that brilliant 14 year old acumen again. Once in the thread was enough.

Yes, Snowden is a hero and should be pardoned for exposing the security state.

I think that intention is a hell of a lot less meaningful than outcome. Whatever his intention, Snowden altered the balance of power in intellligence and led to a decade of fascism on the rise. Because Russia took the tools that Snowden gave them and used it to back fascists in America in an attempt to provoke a civil war - that they may still achieve.

As to what I would have done, I would have made sure I went the official whistleblower route, and anyone who advised me against that I would have cut off from contact.

If Snowden was a hero he would have stood in front of a jury and explained his actions, and taken the results of those actions. Even if found guilty he would almost certainly have served his time by now, and the data he stole, by some accounts up to 50 TB of data, would have been parsed. Instead he turned over the biggest intelligence coup in history trying to flee justice.

He's a coward. He thought he would get away with it.

And we know that because he's in the exact same situation again, but he puts his own well being over telling the truth, doesn't he?

It's always fascinating how people talk about facing the repercussions of fighting back against an unjust system, that we should just let those willing to fight be caught and face punishment by that same system. It works very well for the system, I should say, being able to just step right up and remove threats with the approval of any number of talking heads and political ignoramii.

Oh, I'm absolutely certain fascist right wingers would still have come to the fore regardless of whether or not Snowden revealed what our intelligence agencies were doing.

And, if Snowden's reveal led to an imbalance of power, then it's the government's fault for that imbalance, not Snowden's. Place the blame where it belongs.

Also, say hello to any of these guys ... if they're still alive ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=imp...0j0i390l4.15472j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The US was at least a decade ahead of the FSB, likely quite a bit greater. Just like their weapons are actually quite shit, so were their SIGINT capabilities. Until what and how of what the US was doing was turned over to them on a silver platter. Russia was always great at HUMINT but simply didn't have the technnical acumen or resources to compete with the NSA. Until they did.

And the unexpected victory of Trump absolutely brought the facsist right into power. Without that the Supreme Court would have remained liberal instead of becoming a theocratic instrument of christofascism, Roe would be safe, the Jan 6th attack wouldn't have happened, the Q conspiracy cult would have remained at the periphery, and the entire political party wouldn't be actively denouncing the legitimate election of Biden. Hell, the right hated Obama, but McCain and Romney both conceded gracefully.

Yeah, I blame a good chunk of that on Snowden and Assange. They gave them the playbooks on how to do it, and the capabilities to be successful. Russia had made some progress on that front in the late 2000s, but it absolutely went into overdrive after 2013 - when Snowden landed in Moscow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozy_Bear

Enough conspiracy theory nonsense. The US whistleblowers on that list were not executed or assassinated by the US government. You are thinking of Snowden's benefactor Russia who kills off those who don't agree with their dictator.

In the US, some of them broke the law, some didn't. Some even received financial incentives for their actions.

But I hold people like Reality Winner and Alexander Vinkman in high regard. They can hold their heads up for trying to help. And they did so in ways that didn't cause harm to anyone else.

It’s all well and good to look back and say .. this happened then that happened. But, if the US government agencies had not been spying on US citizens, then Snowden wouldn’t have done what he had done.

This is a life lesson - always behave with integrity.

"What is done in darkness will be brought to light." - Jesus.

"The shady shit you do will often come out to everyone and their fuckin' grandma at just the right moment to bite you square in the ass." - Amaris

Dunno, but since a lot of people there support those things it wouldn't be fair to refer to any of them as evil right?

I lean more toward Confucianism when it comes to politics - if governments behave virtuously*, the citizens will also behave virtuously*.

*when speaking philosophically, “virtuously” has nothing to do with sexual activity, rather the 4 cardinal virtues first put forth by … Aristotle (I believe). Actually, I think Aristotle had a whole list, but future philosophers narrowed it down to 4.

True. I see it as a self-feeding cycle, too. Put assholes in office, they start getting their constituents to behave like assholes, who then put more assholes in office, and the cycle continues until everyone's forgotten that the whole project didn't start out that way.

This aged well.

If Snowden acted with integrity he wouldn't have to worry about being sent to die in Ukraine for his chosen evil overlord's ambitions.

You don't control what the rest of the world does. You control what you do. He ignored the legal process, then fled and provided aid to our enemies.

He did act with integrity - in my opinion. You think he didn’t. But, all that has been released that he leaked is that the NSA was spying on US citizens.

You imply your work allows you access to certain aspects of US intelligence agencies, but, then come across as completely uniformed about the lack of ethics happening within such agencies.

I don’t know what all Snowden released. But, from where I’m sitting, he behaved with integrity. You, on the other hand, have shown you would not have acted with the same integrity rather cowardly going to people whom appear to be completely untrustworthy.

I stand by my original statement.