Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

Boy, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting really tired of Rick constantly posting about what's going on in Xinjiang, Darfur and Myanmar.

Wait, he's not? He's only focused on Israel?

Could there be another reason? *cough*anti-semite*cough*

ICJ hears arguments about genocide in Gaza.

Meanwhile, in Canada...

Toronto police lay 'unprecedented' hate crime charge, say man allegedly held 'terrorist flag' at protest

Who is behind funding for pro-Palestinian protesters?

There are some pretty heavily financed protestors with very questionable funding sources.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!

I'm really tired of apologists that insist on treating Muslims/Arabs like the retarded kids of the international community.

"You're not allowed to punish them for attacking you! They're angry and not smart enough to try diplomacy to get what they want!"

"Why aren't you feeding them while they're trying to kill you? They didn't plan ahead and organize their own food before trying to kill you, you're a bully for not giving them some snacks."

"Sure they rioted and killed a bunch of people, but the blame really lies with the Danish newspaper that posted some incredibly tame cartoons that upset them. How could they respond any other way?"



My current policy is "how would I respond if it was Trump supporters/the Trump administration doing it?" and it's made me a lot less sympathetic to idiots.

The first article won't even mention the flag that was waved. I am assuming it was a Nazi flag which has little to do with the conflict.

The second one says they are paying out 20k a month for professional protestors. You might want to do some math on how many people t6hat is buying. If you gave people 20 dollars to show up that would mean that you are telling us there is a highly organized professional group of 100 people being paid 20 dollars a day to protest for ten days in a month. That barely covers McDonalds for showing the fuck up. If you start paying up around 100 dollars to a professional protestor for a day you really cut those numbers down.

That is sure going to convince a lot of people when you can barely fill a parking lot. To give you an idea, you couldn't fill up ten showings in a moderate movie theater per month with that money.

They are a whole fucking shitload more people than that protesting Isreal.

BTW how much money did the US give to Isreal to kill 20,000 palestinians last month? Maybe Isreal can start paying for their own genocide.

Tembeka Ngcukaitobi, lawyer for South Africa, makes his statement:


For those who don't want to watch the entire statement, you can fast forward to 23:49, to get to the summation and the heart of the matter.

Gallant to Ben Gvir: “Just because you were questioned by the Shin Bet doesn’t mean you understand intelligence.”

That's cold.

https://bsky.app/profile/akivamcohen.bsky.social/post/3kiq54cfeis2b

Oh snap!

TLDR: The Palestinians and their allies have been trying to commit actual genocide against Israel since the 1940s and Israelis aren't being very chill about it.

Just FYI ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ ‘War Crimes’ and Genocide are related but distinct terms under international law.

Good breakdown (specifically relating to the South Africa charge) in this weeks Rational Security.

This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett to discuss the week’s big national security and courtroom news, including:
• “Ergo Omnes.” South Africa has brought Israel to the International Court of Justice for actions relating to its military campaign in Gaza, based on a novel legal theory that alleges Israeli violations of the Genocide Convention and asserts standing by virtue of the universal obligation to prevent genocide. What practical impact is this litigation likely to have? And what does it mean as a precedent for the international community?
• “Cert(ain Doom) Petition.” The Supreme Court has officially taken up former President Trump’s appeal of a Colorado Supreme Court decision disqualifying him from the 2024 ballot there on the grounds that he is ineligible to hold office. While some have welcomed the chance to nationalize Colorado’s holding, others have warned that doing so would be a grave blow to popular democracy. How might the matter play out? And what will it mean for the 2024 election and after?
• “Void Austin.” Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spent several days in the hospital earlier this month—without notifying the White House, leaving what some believe was a gaping hole at the highest level of the U.S. military chain of command. How big a problem was this? What steps should be taken in response?

https://shows.acast.com/rational-security-patreon-feed/episodes/the-courtroom-drama-edition

Long story short, while it is quite possible that Israel is in practice committing ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip and possibly other Crimes Against Humanity or War Crimes those are handled by the International Criminal Court and Israel has withdrawn from the Rome Statute.

Israel however is still a signatory of the Genocide Convention. State v State violations of international treaties are handled by the International Court of Justice. So the question is two fold, does South Africa have standing (what has Israel done to South Africa?) and is Israel committing Genocide (not clear it is as while they MIGHT be trying to remove Palestinians from Gaza [ethnic cleansing] that isn’t the same as trying to eliminate Palestinians as a people [genocide]).

Hey, hey… That worked.

I see the UN's ability to look the other way no matter what anyone does to Israel, but then suddenly notice as soon as Israel hits back, remains unabated.

"Hits back."

Yeah, like when an abuser hits a spouse who finally stood up to them.

Israel hits back at the people they've been abusing for generations, just like the US hits back at black folks whenever they get out of their assigned station. There's a good reason why South Africa is standing up for the Palestinians, because they know what it's like to have the United States pouring money into the coffers of their enemies to keep them subjugated.

This is why so much of the rule of law is based in white supremacy, rooted in colonialism. It is to keep order, not to serve justice. Sometimes justice happens anyway, like when Israel "hits back" by murdering 12,000 children and people say they're just defending themselves.

Like every cop, they'll say "I feared for my life" as they gun down a 5 year old who threw a rock, and plenty of very privileged folks will accommodate them because they still believe in the so-called rule of law.

Israel and Palestine are great examples of what side you stand on when it comes to social justice: do you care about the people being oppressed and beaten down like the Palestinians? Or do you care about a semblance of order, a definition of law that protects you from a potential revolution that might upset the status quo, like Israel?

IMHO the genocide accusations are absurd. Some of the war crimes accusations might be technically accurate, but I think the way war crimes are defined currently is outdated and doesn't take into account wars against bad actors like Hamas or ISIS that fail to live up to the traditional expectations that the current statutes take for granted.

You keep repeating these things, despite it being explained to you several times that most Israelis aren't "white," nor are they "colonizers."

Meanwhile, you're white, and you're a colonizer.

Maybe you're projecting?

The podcast I linked to is worth a listen. Only the first third is this issue but it is a good run down.

Basically they agree genocide will be a stretch however the non-genocide parts of the Genocide Convention Israel will have a much tougher time with. Primarily the incitement of genocide and conspiracy to commit genocide portions will likely snare some far right members of the Israeli government considering their public statements which pretty clearly meet the definitions of those crimes.

All of the senior members of the Israeli government have made similar statements inciting genocide. Can you explain what you think is different about the 'far right' ones?

Also, did you read the submission to the ICJ? Did you watch the proceedings yesterday?

This is literally a confession to supporting war crimes. No wonder you won't answer as to which Geneva Conventions Israel should be bound by.

While this trial is going on, both the US & UK just bombed the capital city of Yemen, in retaliation for Yemen upholding it's obligation to prevent genocide, an action which to date had caused zero casualties.

Both Joe Biden and Rishi Sunak violated their own countries laws by doing so without obtaining approval from their parliaments.

This is a serious escalation. I think we'll see US assets in Iraq and Syria getting hit hard now. Yemen can do serious damage to Saudi oil facilities if they wish. And all of this is likely to make things worse for uninvolved (non-Israeli linked) shipping.

And let's see what I have on my bingo card for today...

Shit, I'm missing "obscure jurisdictional complaints" and "suddenly loads of coverage in western media"!

Oh! I play that game, too. But my card is different.

Well, the "they voted for their government, so they aren't innocent!" isn't exactly an argument limited to the pro-Palestinian side, even in this very thread...

Also not sure of the merit of the "OP would be murdered by Hamas IRL" argument. I wouldn't willingly walk into the territory of a tiger, but I can still argue that we shouldn't be shooting and killing tigers as a general principle.

A major plank of the Israeli case was that there was no dispute with South Africa. And their argument for that was actually that they themselves had not responded to South Africa raising the matter so hadn't had a chance to resolve things bilaterally.

Also, just as I expected, the BBC, Sky, the Guardian and others all livestreamed the Israeli side today, having not done so for the South African arguments yesterday. BBC had it as their fifth story on their homepage.

There have been over 130 attacks by Houthis on shipping and naval forces in the Red Sea. The US/UK after weeks of asking them to deescalate finally hit back, hitting a dozen targets with precision guided munitions including weapons storage depots and intelligence headquarters.

The Houthis are now protesting in their own country, absolutely incensed that someone finally retaliated after their 130 previous attempts to kill people.

It's like these morons follow a playbook -WHY WON'T YOU LET US KILL YOU? Inshallah.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...out-yemen-after-us-british-attacks-2024-01-12

Yeah, but you are a fucking idiot. Because the Tiger already has eaten some one, and is trying to eat them again. You think that LGBTQ people in Palestine are SAFE now?

Moron. Absolute fucking simp.

What part of "I wouldn't willing walk into a tiger's territory" escaped you?

Most LGBTQ folk won't frequent the Deep South either, are you arguing we should be putting Bubba to the sword?

The South is far more accepting of LGBTQ than Gaza is. Even in the US South, nearly 2/3rds of Southern Americans back same sex marriage. 64% according to Pew.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx

In the West Bank, it's 5%.
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/o...t-of-lebanese-accept-gay-relationships-594179

Men who engage in sex with other men face 10 years of prison time in Gaza. There are no non-discrimination laws in employment or even services, no laws for adoption, no same sex marriages or recognition of same sex legal rights. Hell, an author was prosecuted in 2017 for writing a novel that explored LGBTQ themes.

And of course Hamas has infamously murdered Palestinians for the crime of being gay. Not a lone nutjob actor, the ruling governmental body.

So yeah, just a little bit of difference.

You're still arguing that "might be dangerous to me" is justification for slaughter, or refraining from condemning slaughter, however you cut it.

You'd fit right in with the Castle Doctrine bunch.

So are you now a rape apologist like your buddy Amaris, or are you just minimizing rape as no big deal when it's Palestinians doing the raping?

Truly you're the most ethical leftist among us.

I absolutely would fit in with the castle doctrine bunch - you come into my house with intent to do harm, you have a very good chance of never leaving it.

Maybe if the religious fundamentalist whackjobs can be removed from power in Gaza they will both stop murdering gays and the population will have a chance for a better future - one where they aren't indoctrinated to hate those different from them.