Ok. Most every night, I hear these debates on CNN and FOX News that are "debating" whether The Golden Compass movie is "pushing the athiest agenda". First- Are you people morons? Second- Isn't a movie, just a movie, part of our capitalist free will and speech? third- Don't movies about the bible push christian agenda? Now, I don't watch movies bassed on the Bible or christian agenda because i don't like the propoganda and brainwashing and disregaurd for facts. If these people are afraid of their children watching this movie because it'll give them ideas, .... Well, you can see where I'm going. Fucking morons.
As a fundamentalist Christian, I can truthfully say I don't think it's anyone's business if it "pushes an atheist agenda." More power to 'em. Maybe it'll make some of my compatriots think, for a change.
Funny how boycotting The Passion of the Christ was on ok thing, but people are supposed to welcome this movie with open arms. Funny that.
Ok, I've seen numerous frantic e-mails for my more gullible relative and friend who claim this movie is about "killing God". Haven't read the book (if there is one) and no next to nothing about the plot. Can someone clue me in on the plotline so I can appreciate the "controversy" better?
You don't watch/read Narnia? FFS, I'm as atheist as they come, and frankly, The Last Battle pisses me off big time*, but I can still get past that to enjoy the story telling. *And the propaganda in that is nothing compared with the propaganda in That Hideous Strength, which I can still enjoy as a story while mentally yelling 'so wrong!' at the author.
BIG SPOILER: Okay, there is a LOT in these books - the 2nd and third book specifically, the first book is a stand alone fantasy - some of it subtle, and some of it outright spelled out for you, that is very anti-fundamentalist Christianity. Honestly, I could go on for a page about not only the subtle allegory in the books, but also about the stuff that is outright stated and spelled out in the books. But none of these are really part of the first book, upon which "The Golden Compass" is based. And in this movie and the sequel movies the religion link will be VERY MUCH played down. The real worry by fundies is that the movie, and it's planned sequels, will prompt kids to read the books - all of them - and be exposed to these issues head on. (And it will. My kids already read these books after I did, but they say their friends at school are all reading them now in anticipation of the movie. Even many of my adult friends are now reading the books.) But an interesting think about the books is that while, yes, the author is an atheist (and many, many atheists are excited about these films, and some call them the "anti-Narnia") you CAN downplay or even leave out the religious elements and outright religion bashing in the third book, and the story still works very well. They basic themes are still there. Normally I wouldn't advocate the filmmakers wussing out (and I'll be pissed when we don't get the two gay fallen angels in the sequel) but all in all, this is a case where some specifics...some window dressing really...can be changed and the basic story and themes will still work and stand strong. That is because what the books really are, as the author himself states, are a retelling of the basic themes of "Paradise Lost", but repackaged for kids. And while Paradise Lost also dealt with a battle between God and Satan, that was really just the vehicle for telling a story dealing with themes of free will and self governance. Hell, Milton was a friend and supporter of Oliver Cromwell, and Paradise Lost was really about his feelings about the failed rebellion! NOT a religious statement! It's kinda also like the play "Inherit the Wind" in many respects. Despite how it's seen, that is NOT a play about the Scopes Monkey Trial, or the battle between religion and science. That's just a framework the play's authors used to take a dig at McCarthyism. [See HERE] The basic themes of the Golden Compass and the rest of the "His Dark Materials" series (again, borrowing a line from Milton's Paradise Lost) are about free will vs. submission to authority. Leave out all the God and Church stuff, and the basic theme still stands. In the films, God will be referred to as "The Authority", just as he often in in the books, and The Church will be "The Magisterium", just as they are often called in the books.
I sent you the memo. Everyone with an EAC (Evil Atheist Conspiracy) membership card (which I assume you were given at your deconversion) is on the mailing list. Oh wait... I think I accidentally sent you a copy of The Gay Agenda instead. Sorry, wrong agenda.
Because the media says you should care. *doh!* Also, it's about giant armored talking polar bears fighting for atheism. And that alone kicks ass.
I know next to nothing about this movie, but that part of the trailer alone has me sold. I support giant polar bears fighting.
On a related note, I always questioned the deepness of faith/atheism of anyone who feels threatened by a mere book or movie.
I know it lame, but I am really stoked about this movie...my kids and I are even playing hookie that day to go out of town to see it. My ex-wife wants to see it too but has surgery scheduled for that day and is sad she will miss the opening. I told her it's her stupid fault for not having her priorities straight. Surgery can wait. But other movies I am looking forward too, though without as much zeal, are I Am Legend, Cloverfield, Iron Man, World War Z (in preproduction) and of course Star Trek. I was looking forward to Jumper, since I really loved the books. But the trailer looks like SHIT. They cast Hayden Fucking Christensen in the lead, and renamed it "JmpR". Fuck that shit.
That's a good point. I know some very devout Xtians who love the book and movie versions of "The Last Temptation of Christ". In fact, the last time I saw that movie it was shown along side "The Life of Brian", in a Christian church, and the pastor was the one laughing the loudest at Brian. And I, as an atheist, don't like the preachy message I see in the Narnia films and books, but you won't see me protesting, or forbidding my kids to see the movie or read the books. Even if I disagree with the message in The Last Battle, or roll my eyes when Aslan comes back from the dead. Hell, I took them to see the movie. We even own it! We'll likely see Prince Caspian as well. (My only serious beef is that Walden Media sucks at doing fantasy. The Seeker, The Bridge to Teribithia, The Waterhorse...all look like crap to me.) And from the other side..."The Passion of the Christ"...never really cared to see it, but I probably will. Some of my favorite movies are about Jesus..."Last Temptation of Christ", "Life of Brian", "Jesus Christ Superstar", "Godspell", "Jesus of Montreal"...but I even like more mainstream stuff...I still watch "Jesus of Nazareth" every time it's on. I think it's a very engrossing series, and well made. Beautiful, even. I may buy the DVD some day. I don't feel threatened by art. Even bad art. And protesting just draws attention to what you don't want people to see. It's free publicity. I doubt anyone would have even heard of Last Temptation of it weren't for all the controversy. It wasn't that great a movie all in all. And people protested Passion. I doubt that made less people see it. I'm convinced it anti-semitic crap, but I didn't protest it. And all in all, I can't really judge it until I've actually seen it.
The first movie will probably be the least offensive to Christians as it doesn't really have an anti-religion message, but rather an anti-torturing of children message. Whereas by the third movie
Wait a minute, are ALL these fantasy series anti-religion in some way? Lion, Witch, Wardrobe was offensive due the Christ analogy, Harry Potter is subversive due to eeeeevil witchcraft, now this? Can't it just be a fantasy story? Do we need to look more closely at banning Oz from the airwaves?
Well, many Xtians seem to like the Christ analogy in Narnia. It's a popular book with many Xtians for that reason. The only one's I know of who really got their panties in a bunch over Narina or LotRs (or even Harry Potter) were the really really nutty fundies who believe that all fantasy is "Satanic". The kind that make, read and/or distribute Jack Chick Tracts. And those people are damn scary. But the Dark Materials (Golden Compass/Subtle Knife/Amber Spyglass) books do take it a bit further, it's not just the allegory and analogy, which the books are chock full of, it lines like ...said by an ex-nun turned atheist in the 3rd book. And outright refers to And in the second book there is a bit where some witches take a dig at religious practices like circumcision. But I also still maintain that you can indeed remove all those references and the basic story still works. The battle against "Authority". But kids will see these movies and they will then read the books and be exposed to anti-religious ideas and that doesn't sit well with too many people. Then again (from Wiki) not all religious folk react the same way to Pullman
And another thing, why aren't these "debaters" all up in arm about Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game? For a respected LDS writer, he couldn't have produced a more non-God's will book! I mean, a sentience Not created by god? That's good and not evil? creatures that he shows have Evolved strangely? Societies that have a religion NOT centered around christianity, but around Trees and a circular life cycle? Why don't they debate that? Oh, it's not being made into a movie.
One of my favorite series of books, Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality is one I would love to see movies made of, but it never, ever would given how religion is handled and explained in the books. It is a damn fascinating and fun set of books though...I highly recommend it. Oh...and any book or movie marked "Fiction" shouldn't be threat to anyone. That is just....stupid.
Not feeling the movie part... But books are ideas. And that's about as dangerous as you can get. Ask the Cathars. One book ruined their whole day. And I'm pretty sure there's been a little red book and a manifesto or two that have killed millions. Not trying to be an ass, but the old cliche about nothing being more dangerous than an idea whose time is come is true. And when they do, generally somebody fires up the printing press...
