End of an era? GM suspends production of trucks, SUV's, and......the HUMMER?

Yep, and the other half of it is not being so hard on a car. Take off easy and don't sling curves and tires will last longer and you get better mileage. Also, roll the fucking windows down unless its a really hot day. On, my way home, it was like 75 outside and most everyone was setting in traffic with the A/C on.

Nothing better than putting the top down on the mighty Jeep, even if it's 100F outside. I don't run my A/C very much at all. Altho the Jeep only gets around 20 MPG . . .

I wish I could get a Wrangler with the same performance I have now but that got double the mileage. Or ran on some other fuel. Ah well, wish in one hand, poop in the other, see which one fills up faster, eh?

Ah well. Better to make a typo than to be completely retarded.

Eh, same difference Volp. I been to several receptions after weddings and like recessions, they seem to end up in hardship and heavy drinking and great financial loss for the average working man

Jeeps might wind up going back to the 4 cylinder engine that made the old Willys Jeeps so good off-road. These big 8 cyl engines really have too much torque. Start those wheels spinning in mud and you're more likely to dig in and get stuck.

And Volpone could drive one to a reception.

My brother had a 55 willys and it would only run about 50 but would get 25 mpg just running around. I don't think jeep has made one since then that even came close. Their v8s suck the fuel and people always put those fucking headers on them that leak and click and sound like shit. MY 95 kia sportage has a real 4wd setup with manual hubs and a super low range and it gets about 25 back and forth to work and 30 or so on a trip. People are going to have to down size. One good thing is that the car crushers are offering more money than ever for them heavy framed suvs

Wait?!?!

Weren't you just saying that Geos were selling like hotcakes on the used market, and GM was the one that made them.


Now you're saying they were imports (I thought they were produced in Cali at a joint GM Toyota plant?) and they didn't sell b/c Americans don't like small cars.


I'm confused!

THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID!

I think he's saying that right now people are driving small cars because they feel like they have to.

Hell, my wife is starting to talk about getting something smaller than the Explorer (but she wouldn't listen when I wanted to buy her an Escape a couple of years ago ).

Quick story:

Back when I was running a paintball field, I was driving a little '90 Plymouth Horizon--front wheel drive 4 cylinder. I loved that car. Light, good gas mileage, easy to work on, fit into tiny parking spaces, and wasn't something crooks would steal or fuck with if I parked it in a seedy neighborhood in Minneapolis.

Anyhow, I hadn't put in any gravel yet for a parking lot or driveway. It was just a grassy area in a field that I kept mowed. And the land, wooded with streams and swamps, was pretty low on the water table.

Well one rainy summer day I wanted to pop in to check out the land. I was a bit nervous, but I got in OK. But when I stopped and lost forward momentum I was screwed. I couldn't get enough traction to get moving again. Once the wheels started to tear up the sod I cut my losses and managed to get a ride into town.

Actually the guy who stopped to see how I was doing stopped on the access from the highway. He was in, like, a Geo Metro and even so, we wound up pulling up a couple boards off a footbridge I had on the land to put under his tires for traction to get HIM out.

So we went into town to get my brother's big 1978 Chevy Blazer (or whatever it was). I had some climbing rope in my trunk that I didn't want to wreck, but it was just long enough so that he could pull the car without leaving the paved road.

Of course, since the Plymouth was able to get that far out into the field, my brother wouldn't listen to me and the other guy when we told him not to go into the field.

He instantly buried the Blazer up to the axles.

Fortunately someone with a light FWD Bronco II came by and was able to pull him out from the road and get back to the Horizon without getting stuck.

I tell you, if that little Horizon had maybe 2 more inches of suspension, AWD, and some knobby tires, it would've been a nifty little off-road vehicle.

You say that as if it's a bad thing...

While I recognize their appeal, they were not very practical vehicles with such poor gas mileage. People never thought to pay much attention to a car's mpg rating, but I've been doing so since 1998.

Hopefully, the decrease in the number of large fuel hogging trucks on the road will put downward pressure on fuel prices. Why wouldn't I feel somewhat vindicated by this?

They all look like a fucking shoe box with lights and wheels to me.

Brand loyalty is a powerful marketing tool. The Camry might be an SUV by then.

Fuck GM, fuck Ford and fuck Chrysler. I hope they all go bankrupt, and the dumbass union monkey employees riot and execute every last one of those know-nothing greedy fuckhead executives before they turn and start killing themselves.

How many state and federal governments have thrown billions of fucking dollars their way just so these lousy companies can make shitty cars and lay off thousands of people? The North American auto industry has been in decline for decades... Underperforming companies with overpaid executives and overpaid union monkeys. So long as the executives and institutional shareholders made money, none of these rich fuckers cared that the business model was becoming increasingly unsustainable.

It's the same situation in the airline industry.

Corporate welfare is just as evil as individual welfare. Fuck these companies.

Now, who wants to know what I really think?

I will continue to drive a truck, no matter the cost.

I need a truck. I want a truck. I deal with it.

However, I will simply start charging people for favors. You want to buy an efficient econobox? Don't call me when you need to get that dresser home from the yard sale. You're gonna pay for it. Don't call me when you buy a fridge and don't want to pay the store's delivery fee.

I don't care whether GM makes SUVs or roller skates. So long as GM makes what people want to buy--and not what they're commanded to by our betters in Washington--I'm content.

Chris,

If you think the average median price of a car is going to go to $40,000 I'd suggest you get a new line of work.

Right now in fact. Before it is too late for you.

Exactly. And they will again for the same reasons.

They're decreasing production, but not exactly suspending it...

How about, say, any car that won't get squashed like a bug in an accident?

I have trouble seeing the appeal of a Smart Car when a Toyota Corolla will give you equally good mileage, but without looking like something a 5-year-old would power with his feet.

Some of us don't give a shit about mpg. Work pays for fuel.

If I'm in an accident, I'd rather it be with an SUV than a fucking smart-car.

Plus, Smart cars just look gay.

Even the non-hybdrid models of the Corolla and Civic get better mileage than they used to, which is why when car makers cry, "We can't build cars with better mileage and meet all the safety regulations imposed on us" I have to say, "Bull-fucking-shit." Car makers (like most companies) resist new regulations because they don't want to have to think, they just want to keep on doing what they've been doing for the past umpteen decades. Buncha fuckin' retards.

Take GM. For decades, every division had its own line of engines, and only occassionally, would you find, say, a Buick engine used outside the division. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Each one of those engines had design, inventory and emission costs associated with it, whereas if GM had done what every other car maker had sense enough to do, and share engines across all of it's divisions, they could have saved a bundle (of course, they would have blown it on bonuses for assholes who don't deserve it).

Ever seen the side impact beams which were supposed to be so onerous to install in new cars? It's a piece of fucking conduit! That's right. Conduit like you can buy at any big box store, not some kind of precision engineered beam. Oooh, but it was going to drive them all to bankruptcy to install them in cars.

Want an easy way to solve a lot of problems in the car industry? Seriously. It wouldn't be difficult to do, and wouldn't cost them much money at all, and within a few years it'd pay big fucking dividends for the car makers. Here it is: Make the engineers who design the cars actually work on the assembly lines and in the repair bays at dealerships. The vast majority of them have no idea of what it's like to get their hands dirty (they don't even require more than a short course inside a machine shop in most engineering programs at universities any more), so they don't understand that just because it looks good on paper, doesn't mean that it'll work all that well in the real world. You wouldn't have a life saving operation performed by a surgeon with no experience (unless it was an emergency and he was the only one available, of course), so why is it okay to allow an engineer who probably doesn't know the difference between a crescent wrench and a screw driver design a 3000+ lb vehicle?

I remember watching an interview with some car exec and hearing him say that car makers were surprised that customers didn't care if the non-cosmetic parts of a car were shared with other models produced by the company. All I could think was, "You mean to tell me you used to believe that the asshole who bought a Cadilliac would be concerned if the headlight switch on his car was the same on some dumbfuck's Chevette?" The only time people think about their headlight switch is when it doesn't work.

General Motors made a small car segment and offered them for sale years ago, nobody bought them. I never said they developed the cars themselves.

Rebadging across companies is quite common: the Pontiac Vibe is a rebadged Toyota Matrix and made at the joint NUMMI plant in California; GM makes medium trucks for Isuzu and used to make Cavaliers for Toyota.

All that stuff made at the NUMMI plant starts with a VIN 3 which indicates Mexican production. Confuses the heck out of me.

Weird...

Yeah. I always get my customer's VIN before I shop an engine, and I have yet to see a VIBE that doesn't indicate it was produced in Mexico by VIN.

According to my records, NUMMI built vehicles are supposed to have VIN starting with "1NX" not "3" anything.

All the Pontiac Vibes I see have "5Y2" VIN numbers. What's that, London Ontario or Bowling Green, KY?

That's interesting.

There's a 2004 Vibe on ebay right now. LINK.
It's VIN is 5Y2SL62884Z423755.

That breaks down, in my system as:
5: United States
Y: Nummi
2: Pontiac
SL: VIBE, BASE
6: 4 Dr. S.W.
2: Air Bags (Front)
8: 1.8L DOHC 4cyl. Toyota
8: Check digit was verified
4: 2004
Z: [Assembly Plant]
423755: [SEQUENTIAL NUMBER]

CARFAX brings it up:
VIN 5Y2SL62884Z423755 Year/Make/Model: 2004 PONTIAC VIBE Body Style: HATCHBACK 4 DR Engine Type: 1.8L L4 MPI Manufactured In: UNITED STATES

Finally, ITS brings it up:



Identification Information
VIN 5Y2SL62884Z423755
Vehicle Type Passenger car
Make Abbrev. PONT
Year 2004
Make Pontiac
Model Vibe
Submodel Base
No. Doors 4 Door
Body Type Hatchback
Base List Price $ 16605
GVW Range
Country of Origin UNITED STATES
Market
Segment Basic Economy
Engine Information
Engine Mfg. Toyota
Engine Name LV6, 1ZZFE, VVT-i
Fuel Type Gas
No. Cylinders 4
Type L4
Liters 1.8L
CID 109 Cubic Inches
CC 1794
Head DOHC
Valves 16
Aspiration Normal
Induction Fuel Injection
Induction Type MPI
Engine VIN 8 Char # 8
Drivetrain Information
Transmission Type
Standard Transmission 5 speed manual
Optional Transmission 1 4 speed automatic w/overdrive
Optional Transmission 2
Drive FWD
Speedometer Digits 6
Wheelbase 102.4 inches
Tire Size 16R205
Base Shipping Wgt. 2700
Option Information
Air Conditioning Standard
Power Steering Standard
Power Brakes Standard
Power Windows Optional
Tilt Wheel Standard
Standard Roof None / Not Available
Optional Roof 1 Power Sun/Moon Roof
Optional Roof 2
Standard Radio AM/FM CD
Optional Radio 1
Optional Radio 2
Anti-Lock Brakes 4 Wheel Optional
Security System Anti-Theft Device
Daytime Running Lights Standard
Restraint Type dual front airbags / active belts

Anyways, that's a NUMMI vehicle not starting in 1NX.

You know, this is really refreshing to hear. To know that one of the major automotive companies in the world, even one that's been thought to have started this whole oil craze, is buckling down to save the environment.

Even if this is all a big marketing ploy on the part of the company, or they're just doing it to save thier asse(t)s in some way, it's a halfway inspiring story. Let's hope the rest of the world follows suit, if not even more earnestly.

And yeah. Hummers are uglah. They look like big rolling litterboxes with chrome and a sunroof.