Will Democrats Bail out the Big 3?

That's only because auto workers and unions are by and large Democrats. Or did you forget how quickly Bush and the GOP acted on behalf of Wall Street, AIG and the banks? It has nothing to do with being "consistent in their philosophy" because they aren't and everything to do with making sure their buddies receive corporate welfare.

And I guess you missed seeing all those democrats that voted for the bailout including the speaker of the house.

If I'm not mistaken, Japan has been subsidizing and protecting their auto industry for decades. Same thing with China now. It's hardly unprecedented for foreign gov'ts to prop up this industry.

That being said, do I agree with a bailout? No, but something should be done to make it a level playing field. The Big 3 have probably caused the majority of their own problems, but there is interference from the outside that has caused significant problems as well.

I never said that the Dems weren't protecting their constituents, but the GOP does the EXACT SAME THING. Small gov't principles my ass.

$25 Billion for the auto industry is nothing compared to the $80 (+ $40) Billion bailout of AIG.

After the only Chevy and the last Ford that I owned, I hope GM and Ford die in a fire. I want to hear lots of painful, anguished screaming from the flames over that Ford.

Well, GM has 7000 dealers vs 1500 for Toyota. Both have about 20% market share.

Toyota has 100% of my market share.

Do not say that. It is about 99.9% likely my next car will be a Ford Mustang and that I will buy it within the next 8 weeks.

Oh, I did see a Challenger "in the wild". It's OK looking but not worth paying $40 grand to get the options I want (and even then getting stuck with a bunch I don't want) or settling for one that doesn't have the options I want for less.

Bloomberg says GM closed at $3.09 today.

Pretty soon, Alphaman's stock is going to be in the neg.

I doubt it.... I'm sure that the bailout will happen... if not in this lame duck session of congress, then the next one.

At the rate things are going, the next session won't be soon enough to matter.

So first he admits change, then basically says the change will be to continue what they are already doing, which isn't working?

Oh dear.

Oooooo... Who didn't see that one coming?

Let them fall. All of them. No bailout. They'll either get their shit wired and make it or they won't.

Does the Pope shit in the woods?

Go rent Tucker, then watch Flash of Genius, and tell me these three need a bailout.

He must have also missed them demanding that a bailout take place.

On top of that he missed where the fuckers gave carte blanche to the Treasury Secertary and are now pretending to be upset that he's not doing what they want.

Oh and let us not miss the fact that he missed the fact that the Democrats sure as hell had a long looting ride with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and their refusal to stop their buddies in both companies put us where we are today.

The reason Reagan bailed out Chrysler back in 1980(?) was that they had a plan. A coherent, actionable plan and, in Lee Iacoca, someone to execute that plan.

Of course after the Chrysler turnaround Iacoca lost focus and fell victim to his own shitty hubris and Chrysler tanked again. They were able to turn the company around briefly in the late 1990s before losing their way again and eventually ceasing to exist as a publicly traded company.

And if Chrysler wants to be bailed out again and the people at Cerberus failed to do sufficient due diligence before buying the company they deserve to go under. I loved my little Plymouth Horizon. I loved my Dodge Avenger--even though it was just an outsized Mitusubishi Eclipse. Then they ran the company into the ground again making crappy, ugly cars and bringing back badges like the Charger and my beloved Avenger and putting them on ugly, shitty cars. They ruined the Sebring too. Chrysler deserves to die.

GM has ruined too many great names to list and are swimming in a sea of red ink. They should be allowed to drown too.

I might see an argument for Ford. They managed to turn themselves around in the early 1980s. And they've made some interesting cars. The Mustang is damned nice, and the Thunderbird, while a boneheaded play in retrospect, was a bold and well-executed gamble. And compared to GM, Ford is in relatively good shape. If they could show that they were positioned to have a recovery, I'd entertain a bailout for them. If they just wants they gubmint check, screw 'em. Let them drown too.

I'm torn... on the one hand, I think Bankrupsy could be a good cleansing fire. Burn off the UAW leeches that have been draining the big three down for decades.


On the other, shit ain't good for my father's dealership right now....

Screw that noise, dude. You a made man now! Bring the Old Man and yer Maw up to Seattle and either put in for MECEP and go to OCS so you can make serious bank or go back to school on the GI Bill and make the Missus go back to stripping for walkin' around money.









In case you haven't guessed, I'm drinking tequila right now.

I was listening to Boortz on the way home this evening (I had no idea he was on talk radio here ) and he cited that, saying that too many dealerships is part of GM's problem.

He must've read that WSJ article, because he was also harping on how bankruptcy would probably be the best solution for GM (and possibly the others as well), allowing them to restructure their business in a more productive and profitable way.

Fuck the Wall Street Journal. I beat them to that story right here on the 'Forge. It don't take a rocket surgeon to see that bankruptcy would be the best thing that could happen to GM.

Would you buy a car from a company or dealership that's in bankruptcy?

Honestly?

Dealership? No.

Company? Sure, why not.

That may very well be. But, we also have Japanese automakers in the US with non-union employees making half of what UAW are making. They also produce better designed cars. They also aren't plagued with some of those folks that are paid not to work.

The UAW, haven't done anything to improve my opinion of them or the US automakers. I personally think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler were fools to enter into the contracts they have with the union. Now they are expecting the US taxpayer to bail them out. Sorry, not if I have anything to say about it.

It is not the governments job to make anything a level playing field. The government cannot legislate happiness, success, or fairness.

As the owner of a Mustang with a 7 yr extended warranty I would like to see Ford survive, but not at the expense of a taxpayer funded bailout. Even though it could suck for me, I say let 'em sink or swim.

The '10 Mustang is looking not too shabby, either! Hope they get to produce it!

Maybe not right away, but I might do it after they've straightened themselves out. Which ain't gonna happen if they get bailed out. They'll go right back to business as usual.

Only a goddamned fool would believe otherwise.

Let me introduce you to a fellow poster named Alpha.....

Ohhhh you already met him? Well this is awkward.

Nevermind. :flow2:

Wouldn't a problem with them filing for Chapter 11 be a whole mass of challenges to it? Dealerships who'd lose out, for example, could they challenge it in an effort to get a payoff?

I'm about to do my taxes. If I need another deduction to round out my year, I'm gonna walk into a desperate dealership swingin my big stick around.