Maybe it should be. Well, probably, but I guess he's out of office anyway by the time that gets done. Well, what was he calling the referendum for, then? Yuks? Hey, anyone seen those Articles of Confederation lately? Whatever happened to them?
Volpone the reason that leftists and the media love Chavez and his ilk so much is that they are all statists in the end. I bring forth a post from a previous thread.... What is Chavez and this Zelaya guy but Statists? It's all supremacy of the state with them running it. The left and the media are no different. It's supremacy of the state with them (leftists in the Democratic party) running it.
Huh. I wonder why Obama would be uncomfortable about a sitting President being removed from power by force.
I've already posted the exact text of the referendum... It was to convene a constitutional convention after he'd left office. Term-limits may have been one of the issues dealt with by it, but supporters of Zeleya pursued it moreso as a necessary precursor to economic and social reform - increased democratic participation and so forth were on the agenda. The existing constitution was drawn up in the early 1980s, when US-backed death squads were active in manipulating the political climate, and as a result allows Honduras to be used as a tax haven and is heavily slanted toward protecting the power of rich elites. And further in relation to the supposed constitutional right to remove a president proposing modification of term-limits, what hasn't been stated is that the constitution requires a court sentence and then a government order - this did not happen here. [Article 42, Section 5] Anyway, news has broken that Zeleya intends to go back to Honduras, and has invited other Latin American leaders to join him: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8125668.stm
Uhhh Remember that on the political compass those on the economic left at Wordforge are more likely to be libertarian. Its the righties that were more 'statist' I came out more libertarian than most of WF's righties....
^ Only because the political compass was so biased as to be meaningless. GIGO and all that. Claiming that as proof of anything is on a level with quoting World Net Daily as a source.
A court sentence? You mean like the Supreme Court? And a government order... like the Legislature ordering it?
So to recap: State that sponsors terrorism and the killing of Americans, is in the process of acquiring nukes, and has called for the destruction of Israel rigs an election and Obama sits on his hands. State removes a tin-pot dictator in accordance with its Constitution and Obama sticks his nose further up Chavez' butt. We're so fucked.
The legislature is not the government. Obviously that raises the question of how the government can order its own head to step down, but I'm simply quoting what it says...
It's a problem with the language; the government is both the executive branch and all three simultaneously (to use the American model), like the Holy Trinity. Which is what I was saying earlier, but I felt like being a smarmy douche.
Update. UN loves dictators. To summarize. New elections as early as November, intern president will only serve for the remainder of what would have been Zelaya's term, and the UN is useless.
Well, I haven't read her exact comments in context (the WSJ article really doesn't provide much of a background on the statements IMO)....but meh, it was Hillary's first Monday back on the job after elbow surgery. She probably was just going with what Obama's WH amateurs had come up with until she had a chance to review the matter more thoroughly herself. In fact, as early as the very next day (June 30th), Hillary (after likely figuring what was actually going on) began the nuanced approach that so many on here would later call for. I cite the following Washington Post article: It continues further. Whereas Obama would once again knee jerk to 'coup' rhetoric, calling it illegal etc, and saying Zelaya is/was still President; Clinton, on the other hand, would deftly work behind the scenes to remove the US from the middle of the situation and let the two parties figure it out themselves. Well, there you have it folks. Some people jumping the gun with charges of 'illegality', 'military coup' etc, while Hillary advocates for a more reasoned, diplomatic approach. So how does it end? Does Zelaya capitalize and prey on the propensity of some to default to 'nannying' anytime anyone claims oppression? Well, here's the short story: Eventually, Zelaya would try and seek an audience with the US officials, but Clinton would recommend that he only be allowed to meet someone only as far up as the State department. (This is probably a good thing though, given how much Obama 'needs to be liked by everyone', he probably would have been tricked into going to war on Zelaya's behalf.) A meeting this week then was arranged between Clinton and Zelaya. Zelaya, by this time, has more or less publicly indicated that he wants the US to cut off financial aid to Honduras as a way to force the issue. But instead, Hillary steers the situation around, removes the US from the awkward place of 'directly' handling the matter, and turns the matter over to a mediator acceptable to both parties involved. A job well done, and in fact....if you notice carefully one of her statements in the article cited above ("we haven't laid out any demands we're insisting on, because we're working with others on behalf of our ultimate objectives), it indicates that she had been working toward this very end from the very get go. It literally has been Hillary’s leadership over the last two weeks that has moonwalked the Hondurans back from the precipice of crisis and set them on the road to a peaceful, legal resolution of the matter that will protect Honduras from the subversion of Cuba and Venezuela. And while I don't know if anyone else here will agree with me, nevertheless.....Well done Madam Secretary. Oh, and as one last tidbit, Zelaya and Hillary met last month in Honduras also for OAS meetings, and interestingly enough, discussed the planned amendment to the Honduran Constitution. Here is the relevant text:
and yet they (the administration) are still hedging by saying it might a coup when all of the evidence is to the contrary
Meanwhile there is much unrest in Honduras. Those who seized power have been busy. Much of the media has been censored, an ongoing curfew is in place, hundreds have been arrested and teachers are all on strike in protest. Although they probably knew about the coup in advance and are the only country in the hemisphere not to recall their ambassador (France, Spain and Italy have done so too), that the US is hedging its bets at all and isn't lining up directly with the coup against Zeleya is extraordinary, and a first in Latin American history. Is it because they don't want to piss off the OAS, I wonder?
They didn't mention that the Leader nationalized foreign owned industry, or that the Leader removed all judges who were critical of him, and the teacher strikes don't fit, but otherwise it really seems to fit your pal Chavez to a "t", doesn't it. Bet you saw that one coming from a mile way, you threw such a softball. But I'm glad to hear you've turned around in your misjudgment about the events in Honduras.
Man, you gotta give these megalomaniacle tin-pot dictators credit. If I got run out of the country by my government I'd be like "well, it was fun while it lasted. " These guys fight against even hopeless odds to retain power--Hitler, Saddam, Noriega, Chavez, Castro...
The OAS has considerable economic weight. I assume that's what he's talking about. Honduras has already been suspended.
Stop being stupid. You're comparing somebody to Hitler because you don't agree with their political beliefs? Ha! Dictator? Wanna-be dictator I will accept at a push, but was the man not democratically elected in 2005? If you got run-out of the country you would say it was fun while it lasted?
It may have served that purpose in the past, but as I have noted, things have changed for the better.
So that "democratic referendum" Zelaya wanted? Turns out he had the votes counted and certified before it even took place. [RickDeckard]Clearly Zelaya was so awesome he had precognitive powers, of course, and could tell that the people would rally to him.[/RickDeckard] http://lagringasblogicito.blogspot.com/2009/07/more-corruption-ballot-counts-are-in.html http://www.europapress.cat/internac...sulta-queria-hacer-zelaya-20090717221327.html http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=2009-07-18&ID=274578 http://babalublog.com/2009/07/a-page-out-of-the-chavez-leftist-in-other-words-playbook/ http://content.usatoday.com/topics/article/Places, Geography/Countries/Honduras/01D891jdUbgu5/1 Translated from Catalan: It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes.
No comment on who collects the evidence of who counts the votes? To take this turn-up at face value in the midst of the power struggle going on is incredibly naive.
