Bad lessons from school...

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Volpone, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    "It's not a popularity contest." I don't know how many times I heard that in school--usually for election of class officers. Until recently I never realized how destructive this terrible piece of indoctrination was.



    After years of trying to avoid it I've finally realized that, in order to amount to anything in society, you have to know how to sell.

    Whether you are selling a product or you're selling a prospective employer or trying to convince a girl to go out with you, you are selling.

    So I picked up a book on selling to learn some of the techniques and tricks of the trade.

    If the book is to be believed (and I think it is), a fairly significant part of selling is to be likable an believable. A salesman needs to establish a rapport with the customer and build trust.

    But that isn't what public schools will try to teach you. It shouldn't matter what you look like or how cool you are, people should listen to you because of your qualifications.

    The problem is, the real world doesn't work that way. If you doubt this, you need look no farther than the 2008 election. Would anyone have voted for Obama because of his qualifications? Hell no. A couple years in state government, a little over a year as a US Senator, going to elementary school in another country for a year or two. In no way does that qualify him to be President. But he was likable. And he got himself elected.



    The other one was always that it was in some way dirty to make money for a profit. Oh, you could go out and sell magazine subscriptions to pay for new football uniforms or to help pay for the homecoming dance, but it you had a skill or talent it somehow didn't seem right that you should offer that to other students as a way to make money.

    (The origin of this part of the screed was that around 6th grade, I learned how to draw a pretty neat looking chimp and I got some popularity by drawing people pictures of chimps, dressed in the clothes they were wearing. :shrug: 6th graders have different tastes of what is cool. Somehow it got in my head that it would be wrong for me to sell these drawings for profit, so I just did them for the greater good of the People. :hammer: )
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  2. Bathier Maximus

    Bathier Maximus Fresh Meat

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    actually, I think the popularity thing isn't so much true. For me it's about results, and other than politics and marketing (but I repeat myself) people are more interested in RESULTS than anything else.
  3. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Because people like you promote and sustain it. It's a diseased mentality that needs to fucking die.
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  4. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    So how's that viewpoint working for you? It hasn't worked all that well for me, so I'm trying something else. And it seems to be working. :marathon:

    If what you believe doesn't jibe with what the majority of the rest of the world believes, you're probably going to have more success changing yourself than changing the rest of the world.




    That said, another one is more a product of 1970s television than the education system--the tortured and unsure hero. The best example may be Hawkeye Pierce in M*A*S*H, but this trope abounds in the 1980s. "The A-Team's" "Hannibal" Smith is the exception, not the rule. Everything from "St. Elsewhere" to Mel Gibson's character in "Lethal Weapon" tried to convince us that it was OK to be vulnerable and unsure.

    Well let me tell you, that is terrible advice. It's OK to be unsure, but you'd better not show it. Arthur Dent may have been the hero of the Hitchhiker's books, but Zaphod Beeblebrox got the girl and got to be President. The name of the movie wasn't "Cameron Frye's Day Off."
  5. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Hit and miss, favoring the "not very fucking well" side.

    FUCK the rest of the world. :rant:

    Depends on the situation, but confidence and arrogance are not the same thing and don't always require an overt display for someone else's benefit.
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  6. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    Is there anything tv doesn't teach us?
  7. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    Even as a kid, I thought Hannibal was kinda foxy..I didn't even care how old he was. :lol:

    I guess I just like men. :shrug:
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  8. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    [?=How to meet chicks!][​IMG][/?]
  9. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    How about gray-bearded old Confederate Colonels? :?:

    I just want to feel like I'm still in the game. :sigh:
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  10. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    True, but you also sometimes have to promote yourself (at least initially) as someone who can get results.


    As for the OP, sometimes your qualifications are your selling point. :bailey:
  11. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    My friend, the words "Confederate" and "still in the game" do not belong in the same post.





    :shitstorm:
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  12. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    [​IMG]

    :wub:

    I wonder if he liked redheads? :lol:
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  13. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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    Is it totally dorky of me that I thought you were talking about the guy with the elephants?
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  14. Zel Garish

    Zel Garish " "

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    Red Heads.. now thats a plan i can get behind!!!!!!!!
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  15. Tamar Garish

    Tamar Garish Wanna Snuggle? Deceased Member

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    Fixed that for you....
  16. Ward

    Ward A Stepford Husband

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    Now that could be twisted very easily... :lol:

    edit - too late, I see
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  17. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    I love it when a plan comes together.
  18. Chris

    Chris Cosmic Horror

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  19. MiniBorg

    MiniBorg Bah Humbug

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    Another way of looking at this is:

    It's not popularity that gets you elected, it's trust.

    When you're selling a product, the one that the person likes the most is the one that they trust to follow through on their promises.

    If you don't have the qualifications or product to follow through on that trust, then you're what's known as a "con-man", short for "confidence man", aka someone who trades on your confidence and nothing else.

    Someone could be extremely likable, but if they're 'adorable yet incompetant', they're not going to get elected / make the sale. Think of a fumbling car salesman who can make all the friends in the world, but whenever he's asked a question, he has to look it up, and still fudges the answer. At best, he'll make the occasional pity sale, but otherwise, he's not going to be successful.

    On the otherhand, someone who has all the qualifications and experience, and comes across as someone you want to punch in the face, who you suspect is a bastard that will rip you off and steal your wife? Well, you don't want that person in your life, because you don't trust them to follow through on the work and not screw you over on top of that.

    It's not popularity, it's convincing people to let you into their lives in some form. It doesn't mean they have to love you, you just have to make them think you aren't going to fuck them over in one way or the other.
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  20. K.

    K. Sober

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    Thus, Microsoft.
  21. Summerteeth

    Summerteeth Quinquennial Visitation

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    When I first started in estate agency valuations (i.e. winning clients), my boss told me to be:

    Appearance: smart but not too sharp
    Attitude: Pleasant but not soppy
    Expertise: Confident but not arrogant
    Market appraisal: Honest but not downbeat
    Closing down on instructions: Firm but not pushy

    Mini nailed it, all that boils down to being trustworthy and genuine. If a potential client smells something that seems fake, they'll go elsewhere. That's all there is to it. :shrug:
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  22. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    Many elected officials lead me to think this isn't quite true.
    Maybe it comes down to what one person sees as competent another person might not.
    For instance I can't believe Boris Johnson got a single vote in the London mayoral election, let alone win it.
  23. MiniBorg

    MiniBorg Bah Humbug

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    Actually, a lot of people see (saw?) Boris as adorable, but underestimated, and playing to an image. That's how he got the votes. Many people thought Boris had a lot more to offer the average londoner than Livingstone did.

    Trust me on this, I live here.
  24. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Gawd, you make him sound like Hugh Grant -!

    Post #19 is fantastic, by the way. :techman:
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  25. Volpone

    Volpone Zombie Hunter

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    Another one: "No means no."

    Yes, the intent is to teach people not to rape other people, but whether it is trying to get a date with a girl or trying to sell a product, 90% of the time--maybe 95%--No means "try harder."

    But I grew up when the whole "no means no" thing was huge, so as soon as someone doesn't return my call or says they aren't interested, I let it drop.