Come on Henry, we can beat the dead horse a million times over if we want. Fact is if we look around the world at the different health care systems its quite apparent which ones work best. Not the strictly public ones, and from what I've read, not the strictly private ones(do they even exist?). Obamacare doesn't actually change anything. It just adds more government involvement in a system that is already over-run by STUPID government regulation, and creates an even bigger financial burden onto a system that is already suffering. I support two-tier health care, and I support non-profit healthcare. I think if you would look at the French, German and Swiss health care systems and duplicate them you would have something 10x better than what the US has now. But that would require that you actually tell the insurance companies to go fuck themselves, and we all know that is not going to happen. Its really sad, but the so-called socialist countries like France and Germany have a greater free-market approach when it comes to healthcare than the US does. And if that doesn't tell you that the system is fucked, nothing will. I'm convinced the American people in 'general' have completely quit expecting that their politicians actually do a good job. The 'lesser of two evils' has turned into the 'option that does the least amount of harm.' You have a Social Security plan that is going bankrupt, Medicaid that is rising in cost like crazy, Medicare that will probably be cut like a bitch to try and alleviate the Obamacare cost, a food stamp program that is being abused like Elton John at a frat party and what does it all equal? A fucked up welfare system in the United States. Why? Not because welfare is ALWAYS bad, but because the government is too stupid to do it right, or they simply don't give a shit. But hey, have fun on the way down guys. I suppose some healthcare is better than no healthcare while you're going bankrupt. Sad thing is that you COULD have a good system that provides excellent coverage, lower costs and minimal waiting times. But by the time people realize they've been duped it'll be too late. Much too late.
So basically, if you have a job you will be fined (taxed) if you don't purchase insurance, but if you don't have a job you get it for free. I don't get it.
BREAKING: Senate parliamentarian Alan Frumin has ruled in favor of the Republicans on two minor provisions in the reconciliation bill, which will send the legislation back to the House for a new vote, according to a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.). --Meredith Shiner (2:58 a.m.) Politico 25 March 2010
Saw that. Not that it will make any difference. Obama has already signed it (It's historic!), so there's no way it can fail to be enacted.
Yeah it will almost definitely pass back out of the House. They can also send Biden to overrule the parliamentarian as well if needed. Still, it's worth noting such a development in the process, imo. One of the questions after passage was the fate of the Reconciliation Bill, and whether it would pass out of the Senate unscathed or sent back to the House. Now we know...
From NY Times: Take that with a grain of salt, btw. The two issues thus far that sent it back to the House appear minor (although I wonder about the student loan matter). A third issue is pending review by the parliamentarian. Whether there will be additional matters requiring a vote by the House is also unknown. As of tonight, once these two parliamentary issues were discovered, Harry Reid called the late night session to a close, to be reconvened tomorrow morning.
Yep, they didn't think about the consequences to your satisfaction. This is nothing more than Conducted scientifically, they tend to be accurate. More And I doubt you'd apply this principle generally if the shoe was on the other foot. Conveniently. A lie. I do not agree with the new healthcare reform, and I acknowledge that a plurality of Americans don't either, though polls are close in some cases. So yeah, you could say that I accuse you of some bias. Your hypocrisy is glaring.
What? I almost entirely agree with what you said. Interesting how some right-wingers have responded maturely to Obama's bill passing, are now willing to admit that the system is broken and pragmatically consider European approaches. Just as others retreat into their bunkers.
Only in your pathetic, twisted little socialist mind. Except that the polls that you're talking about never really are. I am applying this equally. In case you didn't notice, I couldn't care less what yet another poll says, even if it happens to favor my perspective, simply because I have no way of knowing how the poll was conducted. You know, the one saying Americans hate this new health care "reform". So, once again, you are full of shit. Then why do you keep defending it? Gee, and here I thought according to you, Americans were falling all over themselves to pay more taxes so they could get UHC. Look who's talking.
Don't pull that bullshit with me. Every thread that's been against this bill passing has featured a post by you defending it. Well at least you got something right.
Then you'll be able to find a link. My position is that the bill is unsatisfactory, a missed opportunity and probably represents only a minor improvement over the prior situation. It is designed primarily to reduce costs for business and increase profits for the insurance companies. Do not mistake mockery of Republican hypocrisy or hysteria for actual support. What I have been "defending" is actual universal healthcare.
Skin tried, but when he calls her number, all he gets is a message saying it's been disconnected. Skin suspects a good percentage of the rest of her people have gotten the same message loud and clear now.
Unfortunately, representative democracy allows representatives to ignore their constituents desires at times other than elections, if they wish. Of course, I'm in favour of politics being much more participatory. The point here is that you can't have it both ways. If you want politicians to go with what their constituents want on this issue, you have to accept it for other issues to.
One where a benevolent group of elites, I mean caretakers decides what is best for everyone and acts accordingly, of course.
No he hasn't. He signed the Senate version that the House voted on. This is changes to the Senate version. If it fails then we still have the Senate version he signed. And you never know......
Read more at link..... One comment regarding Obama's claim that "the American people aren't going to put the insurance industry back in the driver's seat." One of the lead authors on the health care bill (iirc), and now staffer to one of the Senators, was a former Wellpoint VP. Seems to me like the insurance industry is already in the driver's seat.
Obama has some gall gloating and taunting the opposition when so much of America is not on board with his bullshit version of "reform". Fuck what Republicans do. Voters will let him know how much Obamacare sucks at the fucking polls when the bloodletting of -D politicians begins in earnest. Oh, and does he really think we don't fucking know this is all about the insurance industry getting a fucking bailout when they are the only ones who will get any short-term benefit out of this cluster-fuck?
So who says I didn't? The respresentative from my district has seemed to vote the way I and the majortiy of the folks here want. I have a feeling that's not true for all the representatives in other districts.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/more_polls_show_health-care_re.html As I predicted more Americans now like the health care reform bill then dislike it. People are finding out the Republicans lied to them and that reform wasn't a bad thing at all. I still wish we'd gotten a real public option but the bill was still better then nothing.
I don't see how this is remarkable. Even if you take these numbers at face value, sounds to me like this is mostly a function of messaging, especially when you consider that not much has changed materially in terms of the health care scam. IIRC, the earliest substantial provision has only taken effect as of two days, the high risk insurance pool. And even then, we already see some Health Care Scam deceits: More Health Care Scams... Already talk of reducing benefits and turning people away, and the program hasn't been implement yet? Some success.
