Anyone here currently playing D&D 4th Edition?

This has been the dilemma of thoughtful DM's for years.

For some DM's they're loath to change the reality of their world for any reason. If encounter A is on map section 2b then by god it's staying right there no matter what!

I prefer to let the situation dictate the potential outcome. If the PC's passed an encounter that would provide them with the clue, evidence, magic item, death ray, 2 hexes ago that would REALLY be fun or enhance play, and it's not totally illogical to move that encounter right to them, I'll do it.

Fun wins every time vs. geography unless illogical.

The PCs are the heroes of the story, not the GM, and certainly not the monsters.

You modify the encounter based on the level of capability of the players. Heck, in most of the publish modules they tell you to do that and give you examples how.

And there's lots of ways you can change the challenge level of an encounter. Less monsters, scaling down the monsters (ie instead of Ogres make it Gnolls), change the circumstances of the encounter, change the HPs, etc. Often you can simply make the monsters less aware or less prepared. You can also throw in help. The idea is to make it challenging, and make it fun, but not completely overwhelming.

Most of the players I've played with prefer that on edge feeling - that there is a distinct chance they will fail, maybe even die, but eventually they win through. Dramatic tension.

Make memorable, sometimes even epic bad guys. When you are low level beating six orcs is an encounter. Beating the orc chieftain Kirgazh Eartaker, despoiler of the city of Tadez, hurling spit and profanity and defiance until the last light goes out of his eyes, is a story.

Heck, the two groups can have the same stats. But the players will remember Kirgazh, they won't remember the six orcs that they killed on way to the Necromancer's tower.

So make the encounters easier if you need to - just never, ever let the players know you are doing that!

And once in a while really test them - hell, let them lose if they deserve it.

You can also set the encounter so something that would normally overwhelm them can be defeated through ingenuity or trickery. If they are facing off against an baddie at low level give them an out - they can cut the rope bridge across the chasm, they can knock down the dam that the gnomes put up on the lake above the monsters layer. Make sure they know they will be rewarded for quick thinking, give XP for beating the monster, not just killing it.

And then you can bring that monster back later when they are higher level and don't expect it.

Montgomery Scott to Mr. Laforge; "Ya didna tell him really how long it take! If ya keep doin that how ya gonna establish your reputation as a miracleworker!?"

The problem with changing the monster levels to suit them would be they end up going through the campaign too fast and end up at the final boss at level 15. I'd like, and I think they'd like, to play through this to level 20. I am not going to do epic levels, so if this campaign ends at level 15, I think they would feel a bit cheated.

If they get into a town and meet some people, if the leveling plan of the DM is they should take 2 side quests and then the main quest, THEN they are ready to move on to the next town/area, what happens when they just want to move on?

A couple options: Obviously you could "dumb down" the monsters so they don't get killed. The Darwin solution is just to let them get killed off if they get too far ahead in the game and hope they realize they should go back to Area A.

The deus ex machina solution that a friend of mine used to use was the Dungeonmaster character from the old 1980s cartoon. If he needed to, he'd have this mysterious little character show up from behind a rock or something and give us a tidbit of advice, and then disappear around a corner or we'd hear some noise, look to see what it was, and he'd be gone when we turned back.

The final option (and possibly the most work) is to just drop hints throughout the story. Make the names of places and such significantly more dangerous and describe the surroundings as much scarier to give them an idea that they are in over their heads. Make them run into NPCs that either scoff at them as being not experienced enough or warn them that they should stay out of the area. If they don't take the hints, kill off an NPC and have him make a dramatic deathbed speech about how he wishes he's stayed in Area A.

Every campaign I've seen that goes from level 1 to 20 goes on for at least two years. The DM simply makes very long dungeons, deep plots, a universe with so much depth and complexity that the players don't want to rush through. They spend a lot of time role-playing and mystery-solving. The campaign I'm currently in, it took us 3 hours to get the *first* name of the guy we've been hunting down, but it took us three sessions to find the name of the person who knew the guy's first name. In all our investigations we ended up going all over town to find this one simple clue. Anywho, I've never seen a newbie DM run a 1-20 game. I've only seen the veterans do it, and for good reason. A veteran DM understands exactly how to handle each level and situation, and can keep the players from rushing through. A newbie DM, unless he's very naturally skilled, should take it easy with that stuff.

I'm not sure, but I think there may be a few NERDS in here.

No one is ever cheated by a good story. (Unless all they really want to do is math) Even though 20th level sounds like a really concrete goal, it is actually the most abstract thing in your gameworld. Will your players weild real power (having worked for it) and have a say in some of the more major events in your gameworld? *That* is what 20th (or whatever level...) is supposed to mean. I've had more fun as a player with a 7th level psionicist baron settling lands that I helped subdue than with 17th level high priest killing yet another dragon.

Let your players work their way up into your story and earn some say its really rewarding for them. (Then if you listen to Demiurge you'll just have yet another avenue of messing with them and pulling at their heartstrings, but he can be a bastard sometimes [and in his defense, some of the NPCs of your world should be bastards!!!])

There's so many ways to take DnD (how many fantasy books have been written?) don't try to focus on the silly stuff like numbers and experience. Story trumps just about everything except fun (and there were many times I didn't want to play in Demiurge's games because they were so torturous as to not be fun, but you need some of that too for a really good story...)

Ok, another adventurous night down in the history books! It is getting to be quite a campaign, IMO!

July 10, 2010

Double post. Wordforge is slow again.

Yay, another post! Can we make it 4??

I will have to finish the summary tomorrow. It is late and I am tired....

So....if I just end the game at level 10, no one will complain??

No, most people don't run 1-20 campaigns. They just want to play.

If you chose to end the game at any arbitrary number, people will complain.

Play until people don't want to play anymore. You'll find real life often interferes, and games will go on hiatus for extended periods of time, sometimes they won't get restarted.

But if the people are having fun and you have a story to tell, there's no reason whatsoever to stop no matter what level they are or aren't.

I played my first game for 5 years and got up to level 14.

But level is just an arbitrary number. Most of the best games don't even use the concept.

I wonder if an Amber bid-war is in order, hahaha.

We'd have to lobby for a few new forums though.

You can include a baba like character in your games I give you my permision to use my persona.

What is an Amber Bid-War?

It already is. Just pick up any rock...

Read up!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Diceless_Roleplaying_Game

Indeed - Demiurge ran a campaign in Amber for I dunno 6-7 years or so back in the 90s. My username actually comes from a character in the game - a friendly and somewhat cheerful sentient snake-ring my character wore that always warned me of impending doom ("Roll LEFT!!!" was generally heard several times a session, and it was really bad whenever I heard "Roll RIGHT!"). faisent could also affect "shadow-reality" and make things as I wished them to be. He (it? I always identified the ring as a he) was pretty cool and saved my characters ass a few times (considering I had a knack for pissing just about everyone I ever met off at one point or another; often enough to want to kill me onsite). My character was so paranoid that he eventually reached a point where he could see where it was possible for him to die and made sure never to go into such places. I was the groups "coal-mine canary" - that is once Malys started running, sure as shit things were going to hit the fan.

I'd based the character on Pratchett's Rincewind with a healthy dose of selfish teenager.

If anyone cares, this is WF.net's 2,000,000th post. Congrats faisent!

It's been pruned :\

Amber with this crew would be fun. Good players in here I can tell, a study in pop psychology in the Red Room, LOL.

I'm working my tail off and running my Star Wars Lords of the Rim game on the side. Why don't you run it?

Who knows, maybe I could run a straight up no-holds barred Throne War...though to keep things fair you'd probably have to play an Elder with no interest in actually taking the throne.

Ok, I gots another question(s).

The PCs in the campaign are about to reach level 3. They are maybe 1 or 2 more battles away, and I'd like to have some magic wands, staffs, rods, etc. available to them by the time they reach the next town.

What sort of equipment would be good for lvl 3 characters? I don't wanna give them a piece that permanently increases one of their stats, but I also don't want to give them equipment that is too weak either. Furthermore, there is a Cleric in our party, so I also don't want to make too many healing items, because then that would make his spells redundant.

If they get a rod of fire, gives magic missile (fire) 5 times a day, would it be too much? What about a staff of poison, that casts an AoE spell once a day? I don't want to severely unbalance the game or anything.

Give them items with enhancements that they could reasonably buy. Stuff worth 1-2k at this point would be enough. I usually just go by price charts vs. their money and give them something that's a bit of a treat. Except for when I let them take over the world. But that was probably not the best idea.

I'm disappointed, I wanted to see the rest of that summary, especially the part where I (Melnor, the Rogue) multiclassed into sorceror and used my Dancing Lights spell to trick the monsters into killing each other

As for the magic items, I wouldn't worry too much. Don't just arbitrarily insert magic items into the random loot we get from the weakling creatures we've been fighting. Also, make sure it makes sense. We shouldn't get a +1 sword off a buffalo, but maybe a magical crossbow bolt or throwing knife would be stuck in it's hide from a previous encounter. It likely won't wear a ring or carry a potion either. Our armour is good enough at this point in the campaign, unless you plan to throw some seriously heavy encounters at us in no time, so don't put anything too potent in the loot either (ie, if we stumble on a dead bandit, he won't be wearing +2 Plate, but maybe +1 or 2 leather would be feasible). Remember, you don't want the characters to be dying constantly, but you don't want them raping everything they come across either.

You could also introduce magic items at points where they would be useful. For example, if we need to recover a treasure from a sunken ship, then whoever hired us could give us all rings of water breathing for the quest in order to convince us to brave the perils of the deep. Don't dole out anything powerful in this manner mind you, we should have to earn our Bag of Holding, but it's an option to make sure we have what we need when we need it.

As for the levels, the game ends when it ends. The only thing I've found wrong with your game is that you run it like it's a video game, with a clear beginning and a clear end. The clear beginning is okay, but if we finish the storyline you were planning and are still enjoying the game, there's no reason to end the game, just that storyline. But the opposite is also true, once the game stops being fun, it's time to wrap it up and move on to the next game. You've been a great DM, don't get me wrong, you just need to be flexible. If we finish the campaign at level 14 and you wanted it to go longer, there's no reason not to keep it going, just like there's no point keeping a game going that the players don't enjoy just because you want them to get to the "endgame" (which in D&D shouldn't really exist).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to picking up again on Friday...wonder what I'll be able to kill with Ghost Sound...

As far as magic weapons go - At least in OH's campaigns, weapons aren't changed very often. When they find loot, it's often small items that the characters find personally useful (e.g. a cook might find some rare spices).

If you do give them magic weapons, you want them to be powerful enough that they will keep them around for a while, but not so powerful that they're cheesy. I think in OH's campaign right now there's a character with pan pipes (which allows him to put someone to sleep once per day), a cloak of shadow (radius that dims light), and a fire sword (the cook mainly uses this as a torch/to cook things with ).

IIRC an NPC sold the fire sword to them, and the naturey type character killed a shadow boar (maybe deer), skinned it, and had an NPC tailor a cloak from the skin.

Yeah I think the Cleric also told me the same thing, so I've been working on sidequest type stories that may or may not eventually turn into the main story line instead. The great thing about D&D is there's no rigid program or story to follow so characters can go just about anywhere or do anything they want.

The disadvantage of this, however, is as a DM, you can't really put too much depth into one particular storyline - or you risk it going to waste if the players don't follow that particular path. So I think the best thing to do is to come up with the stories of towns and certain people, give them a good back story or conflict, then let the players decide what they want to do.

Thanks for the feedback. It is certainly great to have comments from one of the players also.

No problem man You always want a couple backup hooks just in case, because player groups just aren't predictable enough to just railroad them into a specific path