BREAKING: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has been shot.

Alec Baldwin holds what position in the Democratic Party power structure? He has how many millions of listeners on daily radio programs? We've got members of Congress, members of the Republican party suggesting that people should use their guns to get what they want and that the President isn't really any American. As big a douchebag is Alec Baldwin is (I've had more than enough of that pablum puking, limp-wristed, dysfunctional parent and wish he would go crawl in a hole) his ravings are not on the same level as what's routinely hurled at Obama from the right wing echo chamber.

Anything you want to say about Alec Baldwin himself, I'm on board with. What a shithead.

Nazis...Communists... It's easy for a moonbat like that to get the two confused since they're both equal in evil.

I hope that you're being sarcastic or ironic, because that kind of statement, if read seriously, is every bit as bad as the ones coming from the idiots who are aching to pin this on conservatives, or laying the blame at Sarah Palin's doorstep.

The guy acted of his own volition. Full stop. To attribute his actions to conservative talk radio, or Air America, or listening to Ozzy Osbourne or reading a Stephen King novel or voices in his head, greases the slippery slope that results in motherfuckers like this walking (or getting "sensitive sentences") under insanity defenses.

Communist manifesto or "Glenn Beck's Common Sense" are just excuses. There is no room for behavior like this, regardless of the ideological leanings and/or predispositions of the perpetrator, or whether or not he's even legally sane. Until we put our collective foot down and punish this behavior even handedly, without fanfare, and without all the rhetorical hypothesizing, these things are not only going to continue to occur, they're going to escalate.

First off, I gotta give you credit, that's a great set up line.

As responses go, how about:

• US Evacuation Czar
• Friend of Jon Stewart
• Schweddy Ball Distributor

Or if you want a somewhat serious reply - Left leaning celebs have as high a position as their influence affords.

Watched Meet the Press briefly. Democrats already starting in on the guns and "radio".

I don't think so. Most people don't have that big a circle of influence - even on the internet.

If you ask me, and, I know you didn't, but if you did, I'd say the biggest part of the problem is pundits and punditry. People like Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh get up on their soapboxes and spew their hateful rhetoric and the masses 'can't' retaliate. They feel like their voices aren't being heard. So they all get on internet message boards and speak to normal everyday people with all the venom they'd love to throw at the pundits.

Then, you get the nutjobs and before you know it, a politician is shot.

Did anyone besides me find that sheriff's comments pretty dispicable?

Once again, the race card gets played. As for the anti-government sentiment, our elected officials have governed irresponsibly for a long time and now we are reaping what they sowed. We're in the shit. Damn right the people are pissed.

Still, that's no excuse to start prematurely voting from the rooftops, but this guy was just a singular whacko as opposed to any organized movement.

Both...

Though he's most likely a self styled radical who believes in violent revolution, who's also a few fries short of a happy meal.
Sad part is innocent people get killed by those kind.























And did I mention he was a moonbat?

That sheriff had to be a democrat. A crazy white guy shoots a white woman of congress and he brings up prejudice and bigotry and starts blaming the republicans ?

Sounds about right to me.

I already answered that question.

Has anyone else noticed that Nancy Pelosi the former House Speaker sounded as if she didn't really even know Giffords? So much so she couldn't even pronounce Giffords name correctly. She referred to her as Gifford.

From listening to some of the public statements about her, it does sound as if AZ's Governor has more of a relationship with Giffords. But, even she didn't get the last name correct.

Ok I'll take a stab at answering sandbagger on behalf of MAOHS, because the roundabout is starting to make me ill.

1. No, Palin, Rush, and Beck are not responsible for this dickhead going crazy and shooting people.

That being said,

2. Extreme rhetoric from certain circles didn't cause it, but it didn't do much good either, and probably isn't the best approach.

MAOHS, I don't meet to step on your toes here, friend. Forgive me. And let me know if I am close. ;

Indeed. And the media doesnt help matters.
The thing I fear is the possibility of the government useing this as an excuse to grab more power and take what little freedoms we have left.
Next thing you know a senator or congresscriter makes a public speech, anyone within a 50 mile radius gets felt up TSA style.

She's not just a white woman: she's a Joo.

You just know there has to be some anti-Semitism in there somewhere.

How can it be anything else?

They're a symptom. The real problem? Our culture has created a climate which, while ostensibly rejecting "hive mind" behavior, encourages "joining" and assimilation (Interestingly, the "joining" is sold as proof of your individualism ). Failure to "tow the line" is met with accusations of social and political heresy (witnessed here any time someone uses the term RINO or suggests, "you're not liberal, you're not doing it right"). Curiously, breaking with the orthodoxy of the political leaning with which one aligns him-or-herself shows free thinking and a certain individualism...the exact sort of behavior which everyone gives lipservice to as desirable. God forbid some Democrat oppose the right to abortion or some Republican support gay marriage. The mob, from either side won't have it, and they'll punish those who stray from the platform.

We all seem to want political personalities to behave like free thinkers right up until the moment that they act like them.

We're not a nation of pussies. We seem to be a nation of joiners (Obama's election was certainly a demonstration of that principle).

So...while it's very convenient to point at Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh, and to sloppily paint them with a broad brush dipped in hatepaint, they are only a symptom of the problem.

It's cause is trickier to name, but you can be sure that it was born out of our collective comfort, complacency and outright laziness. The frustration over our voices not being reckoned is one which we've created, and despite knowing the solution, it's one we've failed to remedy.

You know they will try and create more gun laws, but all the laws in the world would not have prevented this.
When Reagan got shot, it was in Washington DC, Is there any place in the US with more gun laws than DC? A determined person can always get a weapon, and that is just a fact that cannot be changed by a law.

Gun laws and gun regulation is not going to prevent things like this from occurring.

It should also be noted, that Representative Giffords chose to conduct these events like this. She did not like having security entourages because she felt as if it prevented her from being accessible to the people she represents.

She is correct, it does prevent members of Congress from being accessible to their constituents. But, it also minimizes and hopefully prevents tragic events from taking place.

Could you please restate it?

Good for her.

Events such as this are thankfully extremely rare here in the States. Members of Congress are far less likely to be victims of a shooting than many of their constituents.

That complacency keeps the sheep voting in the same two parties.
And that gave us a corrupt government with no incentive to change.
We all share the blame.

So, wouldn't that mean that if there were 233,251 people killed with 233 million firearms available, that only 1% of the available firearms were used to commit murder?

​

No math in the Red Room!

Aw, geez!

It's interesting to 'hear' you say this as you seem to be one of the worst at attempting to force people into corners.

However, if you're serious about having a conversation ...

I did say I think the biggest part of the problem is the pundits. No, it isn't the entirety of the problem, but that one symptom leads to the more dangerous symptom of people feeling their voice isn't heard - which leads people to want to "make a statement".

I agree with your notion about the human need to 'join' a group and will take it a step further - that group needs to have a common enemy, it needs something to share and bind them as a group. Then when 'the enemy' makes a statement that appears to go unnoticed by all but one individual, and that individual decides to "act for the group" or "be a leader", "show these people how 'it' must be done", then that, too, will cause events such as yesterday.

Very true. Well put.

Let me take a stab at it. (And I beg the forgiveness of all those who don't like "Asyncritus-length posts" but this does not allow a simplistic analysis. Don't click on the spoiler if you want a short aswer.)

[?=Warning: TLDR-type post]My studies of history have led me to the firm conviction that all societies, without exception, carry the seeds of their own eventual demise. The nature of that demise thus depends on the nature of the society. The nature of our society is freedom and democracy. IOW, rights. We do not have, and will not have, a dictator telling us what to do.

Good so far. But that implies that people will come to the conclusion, little by little, that they have a "right" to everything. Since that is of course not possible, frustration will build up over the course of a century or two (as it does in every society; there is a reason that no civilization in history has ever remained at the peak of its power for more than a century or two at the most) as people realize they are not getting everything they want.

That inevitably leads to trying to figure out who is to blame. In an authoritarian society, the obvious culprit is the one in authority. Thus, kings get assassinated, dynasties get overthrown, empires have to deal with internal revolts, and so on. In a democracy, there is no clear authority, so it is harder to place blame. But it has to be placed, to those (a clear majority) who think it is "natural" for them to have much more than they are getting.

That takes two forms, both of which are seen very often right here on Wordforge:

1) The culprit is "government," "politicians," "the establishment," etc. IOW, it is everyone, on whichever side of the aisle, who wields authority. They are "keeping us down" and must be stopped. This is the approach of the rugged individualist, convinced that he and other like-minded souls could build a much better society, if only no authority figures got in their way.

2) It is "the other side." Those who hold to ideals other than your own are the enemy. They are the ones who are "keeping us down" and must be stopped. This is the approach of the true partisan, absolutely convinced that, though "his side" might not be perfect, the other side is thoroughly bad. ("I hate Republicans and everything they stand for.")

Both of these approaches are rooted in the concept that we have a right to everything, but little responsibility in producing it ourselves. We The People are not responsible for the society we put in place, or for its excesses, or for its inability to respond to all our whims. "They" are responsible. If only "they" can be identified, found, and eliminated, society will be much better.

The bottom line is that too many people think that a prosperous, stable society is the "natural" condition of human beings (it is not, never has been, and never will be), and that any society that does not produce it has some specific, identifiable group of people who are preventing it. In reality, people simply are not able to build a society that is much better than what we now have, and the ills of society flow directly from the shortcomings of human nature. But accepting that means that we all are responsible, and that is not an answer that most people can accept.[/?]

Christina Taylor Green

9/11/2001 - 1/8/2011





from Yahoo Sports


Among the six killed in Tucson, Ariz. was 9-year-old third-grader Christina Taylor Green.
Green had two personal connections to Major League Baseball; She was a daughter of Los Angeles Dodgers scout John Green
and a granddaughter of former Philadelphia Phillies manager Dallas Green.

From the portrait painted in the Arizona Daily Star, she seemed like a neat little girl all on her own:

• Already a good speaker, her father said, Green recently was elected to the student council at her elementary school.
• Green told her parents she wanted to attend Penn State and make a career helping those less fortunate.
• She loved animals and dancing — especially ballet — along with hip-hop and jazz music.
• She was athletic, too; Green liked to go swimming with her 11-year-old brother, also named Dallas. She also was the only girl on her Little League baseball team. She played second base.

Her grandfather, 76, managed the Phillies when they won the World Series in 1980. He also managed the Yankees and Mets and was general manager of the Chicago Cubs.

Dodgers owner Frank McCourt released a statement:

"We lost a member of the Dodgers family today. The entire Dodgers organization is mourning the death of John's daughter Christina,
and will do everything we can to support John, his wife Roxana and their son Dallas in the aftermath of this senseless tragedy.
I spoke with John earlier today and expressed condolences on behalf of the entire Dodgers organization."

A budding political scientist, the young girl was there to meet Giffords when Jared Loughner allegedly opened fire.

Just so we can see this is a two way street and not just some idea of the tea party or republicans. Here is a link to a map of Democratic strategy as well from back before Obama or Palin became known. Its a campaign folks and that is in fact just another word for war.
Democrats can take their cheap shots but tell me how this picture is any better than Palins?

OMG NO!

I clicked!

EDIT - Actually, I think it's a spot on analysis and thoroughly accurate description of what has happened to fell our society.

I have never hunted with Markos, but I would assume that Ms. Palin is a better and far more enthusiastic marksman.

That is another serious problem with our extremist society - I've heard it here many times that the Democrats are ruining our country - and the opposite over in TNZ.

IOW, you copied and pasted your response and you really have no desire to discuss anything.

... just as I thought.

The Grays, by contrast, are still under investigation.