As Dictators Goes Has Mubarak Been All That Bad?

I know. He has manipulated things and used his police against political opponents. Police brutality and various other abuses of authority for certain.

But to me when I think of a "brutal dictator" I think of Saddam Hussein or Syria's deceased Assad to name a couple.

People who basically rounded up thousands of people and killed them.

Not who mainly had their police beat up political opponents.

Now with the Egyptian protests, liberals are coming out and condemning Mubarak as a "brutal dictator" and even "America's monster".

And that seems to be the view of many in the streets in Egypt.

But why should the U.S. feel responsible for Mubarak?

1) The U.S. did not put him in power. Sadat selected him as his Vice President and he took over when Sadat died.

2) Yes, the U.S. has given Egypt billions of dollars in aid for years. But that was all established by previous agreement with Sadat. And even then, Mubarak was very supportive of U.S. efforts over the years. In the first Gulf War to name one example.

Finally

3) Why shouldn't Mubarak expect to serve as Egyptian president for life?

Nasser served for 14 years as Egyptian president. Until he died.

Sadat served for 11 years as Egyptian president. Until he was murdered.

Notice a trend here?

I think that before this is over, the Egyptian people will realize too late that having any from of ruling government is better than having none. Began, the violence has, and somewhere their "Robespierre" is waiting to take charge in the name of the people.

No one should be allowed to be president for life.

Secondly, if there was little unemployment in Egypt Mubarak would be able to commit the most heinous atrocities and remain secure. This is not about the quality of his rule.

There are certainly shades of dictators. It would be much more preferable (for most people) to live under, say, Pinochet than under Pol Pot. All dictators rule through force and fear, it's just a matter to what extent they must employ it. That being the case, there are no GOOD dictators, only more or less BAD ones.

That said, revolutions have a way of backfiring on those who back them. Look at the Iranian Revolution, which displaced a dictator (the Shah) with very rigorous, puritanical clerical rule. Or the French Revolution, which dispensed with Louis XVI in the name of liberte, fraternite, et egalite but wound up with Napoleon.

It's not a foregone conclusion that what replaces Mubarak in Egypt will be better, even if it is popular. Whatever the outcome, it seems more likely that Egypt will pull further away from the West than toward it...

See what revolution got the Mirror Universe

"In every revolution, there is one man with a vision"

"He's the one who gets shot first".

Too bad Kirk did not complete the saying.

Really, was he worse than, say, FDR?

I feel bad for Dayton's students. Makes me want Arkansas to secede to keep the stupid out.

His bungholio got polio.

Any student of the Cold War would recognize US patterns of dealing with needed dictators. Mubarak is a holdover we needed for another reason besides the Cold War, so he lasted.

As dictators go there are and were far worse, but that does not make him good or excuse his actions.

The most serious damage of this is that there is no secular leadership in Egypt to replace him. Under the dictatorship they did not exist. The only people around to fill in the vacuum that power abhors are the extremist Sharia loving fruits. The result of this will be an Egyptian population that in five years says did we do. Oh, and an economy even more in the shitter than it is now.

Not exactly true when it comes to Egypt, however it does demonstrate the long term folly of supporting dictators who eliminate their political opposition. A lesson the UK and US should have learned after what happened in Iran.

My prediction - Islamic extremists will use this chaotic situation to bring Egypt down to their level of insanity and misery - which typifies every Islamic nation.

If that happens, I can picture them tearing down the pyramids as they did the impressive Bhudda carvings about ten years ago. Allah will be very pleased with them obviously.

There are no groups in Egypt that I am aware of who would object to the pyramids or any other of Egypts pagan antiquities. All Muslims are not the same and The Muslim Brotherhood are not the Taleban.

We started out with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and wound up with Obama.

I don't see Egypt turning into a radical islamist state. Egypt is very Westernized. You would be hard pressed to find an Egyptian that doesn't speak English better than a lot of Americans, and the average guy on the street knows how important Western tourism dollars are.

Besides, like Rick said, the Muslim Brotherhood isn't even in the same universe as the Taliban.

Please, retell your Egyptian story!

The one where I had three irate security guys pointing sub-machine guns at my face in the Akhenaten room of the Egyptian Museum?

Yeah, that one!

That'll get yer sphincter in a knot!

They thought I was giving an unlicensed tour. Like I said. They take tourism waaaaay seriously there.

It was generous of you to allow them to live.

Yeah, but they looked so terrified. It was heartbreaking.

So was Iran and Turkey the most Westernized Muslim state in the world has an Islamist government.

An Islamist is an Islamist.

Isn't Turkey one of our allies?

Ignorant is ignorant too, aparently.

I'll be curious to see whether Turkey's Military lives up to its constitutional obligation to stage a coup soon.

Turkey is rapidly heading the other way. It's reliability as an ally has been going downhill s

Turkey is rapidly heading the other way. It's reliability as an ally has been going downhill since 02'.

How so?