Bill Shatner: Star Wars is shite compared to Trek

I did a sketch on that some years back, but basically turbolasers fail against a logical extension of ancient Vulcan technology known as "Polaroid sunglasses".

So, did anyone else watch the season 4 premiere of Clone Wars?

It was pretty cool.

I know the Prequels have left a bad taste in everyone's mouths regarding Star Wars, but this show has been great. What makes it so great is that George Lucas is not directly involved in its production.

Anakin is actually a likable character in this show and much more heroic and noble than the whiny Anakin from the actual movies. Lots of great cameos, great battle sequences, a look at many different worlds in the Star Wars universe... this is what the prequels should have been the whole time.

The most recent episode actually had me cheering for the Gungan army when they aid the Republic in freeing Mon Calamari from the Separatists. Even Jar Jar doesn't seem as bad in the show, although he is intolerable in the movies.

It still doesn't have the same magic as the original trilogy, but its not godawful like the prequel movies it is based on.

Spock's Brain had a hot chick in a tight outfit, SW:HS had a coked out Carrie Fisher in a smock and Bea Arthur singing.

Truthfully, all flaws in execution aside, the true battle comes down the the visions of the creators: Lucas' version of outer space vs. Roddenberry's.

In Lucas' space, there is no social welfare and the universe is ruled by a single dark vision shared only with an elite few. Slavery is perfectly acceptable among the underprivileged classes, the way to power is through murder and ruthless acquisition of wealth, and the opposing force for good is a bunch of impotent, treehugging hippies.

In other words, the universe as ruled by Republicans.

Trek, on the other hand, is a pollyanna universe where all people and races (except the yucky brown or sorta ugly ones) get along, there is no money or sickness or poverty, and the self-loathing for having been successful is so great that humankind's number one rule in the universe is "don't interfere, no matter how fucked up they do things." People who strive for individual wealth and success are portrayed as vile, base and ugly creatures, the most enlightened creatures in the universe are godless communists stripped of all passion, and the two best ways to solve any problem are to talk it to death or try to fuck it.

In other words, the universe ruled by Democrats.

I think we can see this argument will not be solved any time soon, nor will it be solved easily. I propose we try fucking it, see what that does...

Yeah, they should be compared as franchises, both of which are massive.

Movies - got to go with Wars here. Too many below average movies from Trek, even when compared to the Prequels. I'd rate them in order Empire, Wrath of Khan, A New Hope, ROTJ, and First Contact. But clearly Star Wars film franchise has a marked advantage in popularity and how much money they accumulated. I'd say the worst Trek films are just as bad if not worse than the worse prequels. STV the Final Frontier I'd say is the worst of all the entries (though the Phantom Menace comes close). Revenge of the Sith was actually pretty good.

TV Series - not even close. Trek by a huge margin, with Star Wars having only animated children shows. They even score a negative with perhaps the worst entry in the franchise period, the Star Wars holiday special.

Games - Star Wars wins big here. Dozens of successful entries including some of the best video games of all time in the Old Republic series. To this point Trek wins on MMORPGs, but it certainly seems the Wars is going to surpass that with the new Old Republic MMORPG. Classic tabletop wargaming goes to Trek, classic RPGing goes to Wars, but both are small compared to the video game market which is much better for Wars.

Books - Subjective here, both groups have strengths and weaknesses. And both have a lot of crap. I'd say the best Trek books are better than their Wars compatriots, even with the EU selling strongly. My personal taste is a slight nod to Trek here.

Toys - Huge win for Wars here, they invented the tie in market. There's been some decent Trek toys over the years, but Star Wars toys are omnipresent.

Fandom - I have to give this one to Trek, because of the level of organization and dedication. Trek pioneered the convention experience, and it's even spawned successful documentaries and movies based off of the concept - Galaxy Quest is one of the best Star Trek films ever, lol. So while the Warzies have an official religion in the UK, Trek wins this one hands down.

Comics - got to go with Wars. Trek has a long history and does well, but Wars comics are better quality, better writers and sell better. The Wars comics compare favorably with their novels, the Trek novels are clearly superior to their comics.

Lastly, Social Impact - both are pretty big here, but the ideas of Trek are more important so I have to give them the nod. The first interracial kiss on TV, the concepts of equality, and the fact the first Space Shuttle was named Enterprise as a nod to the TV show gives Trek a win here.

So Wars wins on the fun stuff - big movies with big SFX, great toys, great games and comics. Trek wins on the big stuff - more interesting stories told in better formats for TV and novels, big social impact, more influential fandom.

So by my categories it's a tie, but it really depends on what it is you fancy.

There's at least two made for TV ewok movies, I think those tilt things towards the Trek side by a wide margin.

Sihk!!! Marla even states this.

He suckered Kirk with a play dead move... once. Not impressed.

Force choke-end of fight.

Khan can talk smack, Vader can put it right into your head. Likewise, if Vader can disarm Han Solo with a thought, Khan ain't doing much better.

Vader in two rounds or less.:exactly:

Sikh, actually.

Khan vs Vader:

Superweapons - Vader has the Death Star, which is a ridiculously uber super weapon. Khan has the Genesis device, which could make the Death Star into a nice alternative for Risa as a vacation destination of choice.

Garry Mitchell could give Darth Vader a good force-fight.

We need to do a Mass Effect vs Star Trek thread.

They're both highly derivative (which can be said for most fiction/fantasy). The difference is timing.

Trek appeared before it's time, hiccoughed, and on it's return, grabbed it's place in American iconography, and persevered, for the most part, despite the best efforts of networks, studios, producers and staff writers who obliviously tried to derail it. It's important to note that, as much as it informed Star Wars, Trek's rebirth and subsequent success owes a considerable debt to SW (and to a lesser extent Close Encounters of the Third Kind), which paved the way for popular Science Fiction in the late 70s.

Star Wars blasted it's way into our cultural landscape, catching our collective attention because it was set apart from the grainy iconoclasm and nihilism which had possessed contemporary American Cinema. As Dicky mentioned, there were two good films, then the franchise went on to fail upwards, abetted by our misplaced, dismaying faith in George Lucas's talent. Derivative though it may have been, and as loathesome as some of it's offerings turned out to be, Star Wars made Science Fiction cool for people who weren't geeks.

As it turns out, the two franchises absolutely needed one another. Judging from the volume and frequency of observable influences traceable to both works, even in our daily lives, that symbiosis was demonstrably successful. There's no telling if either would have endured as American icons had that synergy not occurred.

Good points, but you could also argue that Trek's "rebirth" happened before Star Wars in the form of weekly and strip syndication in the early 70s. Star Wars obviously paved the way for TMP, but Trek was already a cultural icon by the time Lucas' movie was released.

SNL was parodying Trek before Star Wars was released.

I wonder what Trek would have become if SW never existed.

For starters, there'd have been no "jump to lightspeed" effect first stolen in TMP. Maybe GR wouldn't have tried to suck the fun out of Trek, either.

Phase II would have limped to life, and proto-UPN along with it.

Proto-UPN would have died the way 00's-UPN did, but, Trekkies would have had more episodes to rally behind, even though P2 would have been the Voyager of its day.

Theeen....probably an ironic "Brady Bunch", "Dukes Of Hazard", style remake with "Lost In Space", style effects in the 90's...and then the JJ remake, possibly without JJ.

Yeah, the 90's/00's shows would have been gutted.
No DS9.

There would have been little things like the Jason Alexander special for anniversaries, and such.

Maybe the QVC shows.

Maybe the blueprint books n' such.

Novels would have plugged along.

...on the other hand, without Star Wars to compete with, maybe things would have been more wide open for Trek to dominate.

Or...maybe something entirely else we can't imagine would have stepped up to the plate, as the next franchise.

I'm betting more on Trek having a rougher ride, and a diminished canon in any variation though.