Speaking of "PedoRay...."

Actually, if you believe your eternal salvation depends upon the practice of your faith, leaving your country is minor by comparison.

In fact, you're here because religious splinter groups left Europe.

One wouldn't turn a blind eye to systemic boy buggery.

Only if you think that's what Jesus intended.

You know how apostle, et al. like to argue that being gay is a sin "because it says so in the bible"?

Maybe you can quote us a verse that says pedophilia is a requirement for membership in the club.

It really all comes down to Paulism and his issues with any and all forms of sex, codified by later freaks like Augustine and Aquinas.

Create a celibate priesthood, and you're going to attract a very high percentage of perverts.

Right, so then the church can be chucked in the bin without going to Hell.

Who, exactly, is the et al, besides Dayton?

Why would perverts flock to something that involves celibacy?

Isn't the whole point of being a pervert being able to get your rocks off?

The only way I can see them flocking to something like celibacy is if there was a concerted effort to cover up and perhaps even encourage the perverted trangressions that occur within the....

Oh, right.

The voices in her head, plus anyone who doesn't make a grandiose display of disagreeing with the voices in her head.

That would depend on the sample size.

To you, as a never-was-a-believer, sure. But one size does not fit all.

15 months commuted to time served? So how much would someone who didn't claim to be a human emissary of God on Earth get for having kiddie porn on their computer?

Fill me with shame? Why would it?

I'm not the one who should feel shame, the shame should be on the offenders, not I.

I don't for a minute condone it or approve in any way shape or form.

So....these people lie when they say they're infallible?

If so....how do you keep that from chain reacting, and bringing the whole dam down?

Not sure where the infallible notion came from since there's no one on the planet infallible that I've ever run across.

Two of the things taught is forgivness and mercy because we are not infallible and prone to be temped and tested throughout our lives.

These guys apparently disreguarded their teachings and chose to violate people and they will be punished for it.
Personally being lashed to a pole and being flayed comes to mind for them but that pesky forgivness and mercy thing comes up.

I have my hands full with keeping myself on the straight and narrow and rarely have time to worry about what Johnny over there is doing.

No amount of torture can make up for what they've done. In fact, guilt is a powerful tool in the Church and is one of the things that makes it work. Guilt leads one to seek absolution if they are truly sorry for their deeds.

In the end, God is the only one who can forgive which is one of the reasons I haven't been to Confession in over four decades. Ultimately it's between God and myself and the middleman on the earthly plane is cut out in my world.

We need a Jesus face palm smiley for shit like this!

Putting aside the estranged theological worldview of Christianity in general, the Catholic Church needs to seriously crack down on pedophilia, allow women to be clerics, and allow clerics to get married if it wants to remain viable for another century.

...so...you're another Deist in everything but name...

You don't play the church's reindeer games, your theology is cherry-picked, what do you need the Jesus for?

The Shwartz is in you, Lonestar.
You as much admit it, while at the same time dancing around it.

I dance around nothing, I have always maintained my status as a Cafeteria Catholic.

There are many things in the Church which I disagree with one of which is the treatment of pedophile preists but ultimately the punishment is up to the state, the church, and God.

My denouncing the Catholic Church over the goings on and behaviours previlent throughout all walks of life is a no brainer. Why should I?

As I've said in so many words, I have my own cross to bear. I'll not throw the entire church under the bus over this.

Now if they as a doctrine start lining up little boys with the expressed reason for stuffing a sausage in their bums then we can talk.

Until then...

I just can't see the point of something like that.

Seems like being a teetotaler wine collector.

In a society where the norm is getting married, a man who isn't attracted to other adults will be drawn to a career where celibacy is required, because it provides a handy excuse for not wanting to marry an adult woman.

So I should throw the baby out with the bathwater?

As much as some rail against religion they are blinded to the fact that there are some very good rules for life in the teachings.

I just happen to find many and take them to heart.

Interesting fact, there are married priests. If Lutheran or Episcopalian Priests convert to Catholicism, they are allowed to keep their wives.

But only those two denominations as they maintained the Historical Succession of Bishops. Meaning that their Bishops were anointed by Bishops who were anointed by (keep going) Bishops who were originally Catholic before they broke away meaning that their line of succession goes all the way back to St. Peter.

So there are married Catholic Priests. And the world didn't end.

Wow, that's one of the most moronic things I've read from you.

So you're saying that because I am a Catholic and intend to remain one that I think it's Ok for men to fuck little boys in the ass?

I don't see a baby.

Since the Catholic Church has few, if any, democratic feedback mechanisms, your only form of control is to stop showing up to Mass and stop donating money. Continuing to show up does give passive approval to the poor management of the pedophilia situation.

And those rules are somehow worthless without the religious stuff attacted?

You can't be bothered to live your life morally or ethically otherwise?

The church isn't punishing them until they're caught by the state, and they're actively working to make sure they're not caught by the state.

Why not? Perhaps the "entire" church wasn't to blame, but a large enough number of the top guys were

How many criminals need to be in an organization before you hold the organization itself responsible?

They might not admit it publicly, but it's been proven that when they've found out about it, they worked very, very hard to cover it up, and that they did almost nothing to make it stop.

What does that tell you?

If my government was as corrupt and criminal as the church, and I had no way of throwing the bums out of office, I probably would.

However, I do have that choice when it comes to my government. That's exactly why the Liberal Party got thrown out of office following the Sponsorship scandal.

When was the last time you voted for a bishop or cardinal?

The church isn't organized like that. Complain enough, they throw you out. All the power comes from the top down. How does a layperson change that?

What was the original intention? Does it involve or require being part of a massive, corrupt organization?

I don't recall Christ sticking with the Pharisees and tying to change them from within.

Of course not. Way to miss the point.

As depicted in the Gospels, Jesus never saw himself as anything other than a Jew, trained in Rabbinic Law, who intended to make the law more accessible to the common people. In short, a street-level reformer trying to strip away the corruption of the Pharisees.

Then along comes Paul and upends the whole thing. One epileptic fit, and the entire history of Western civilization takes a wrong turn...

Tamar, work your magic, please! : jesusfp :

Well, if you're looking to get back to the original intention, and the original intention didn't include the church...

It's like trying to revamp Voyager to return to Roddenberrys original vision for TOS. You'd have to throw so much out, you may as well walk away and start from scratch.

And we saw how that worked out...

Well, I don't recall any of the other apostles exactly opposing Paul...

Weren't they good and properly dead by his time?

Nah, the dates overlap, but he was not one of the original 12, and there's no evidence he ever actually met the Master, just decided to pull a "FTFY" after the fact.

Seems like the original apostles could have easily labelled him a heretic or false prophet if they'd really objected to what he was preaching...