"Everything happens for a reason"

Do you agree with this statement?

I hear it a lot, and there are attractive things about it, but I'm not sure I like the philosophical implications or the passivity of the statement.

The main philosophical objection I have is to the implication of predestination, something I don't believe in. At the same time, it serves a valid psychological purpose -- that of urging people not to be discouraged when something bad happens. It's usually said with an assumption of benevolence on the part of the (usually divine) source of the event; thus, the assumption is that what looks bad now may turn out to be for the best.

Still -- is it too passive? Too focused on the idea that somebody else is determining these things for us and will make things work out?

The statement I prefer is "There is good to be wrung from every situation; we just have to find it and seize it." Or, y'know, the whole lemons-to-lemonade thing. It's more active; it places responsibility back on the individual to find the good and make it happen.

But then, "everything happens for a reason" doesn't have to be passive; it can still imply that the reason is to force you to find the good.

When you hear somebody say "Everything happens for a reason," how do you react to the phrase?

Well, every "effect" has a "cause," but that's not what people mean when they say it.

It's the hippie version of "God works in mysterious ways."

I usually react with a "I would hope not". Chance and coincidence work better for me than an underlying purpose. If a loved one is killed in some freak accident, "everything happens for a reason" is rather cold comfort and nonsensical.

This.

There's causality behind everything, but "for a reason" implies intelligent intent. Other than the small set of things that are completely (or almost completely) within the control of reasoning beings, this doesn't apply.

And maybe not even that if you discount the possibility of free will.

Frankly, it's simple minded as hell.

To me it has always rung as a statement of faith, while staying fairly non-denominational. I think it's a mindset people turn to when they are in need of comfort or searching for answers, usually after something bad happens, but occasionally also when something good or just plain strange happens.

The only way to rationalize that statement with the reality I see is that if our lives our pre-programmed in a way that the things that happen to us are meant to show or teach us something that we carry out of this life into the next. Although reading the headlines, if that is the case, the lessons can be brutally hard indeed.

Do I think the statement is true? Hell, it depends on the day. My views on faith and reality are constantly reshaping and redefining themselves. Like everyone else, I won't have the answers to my questions until my last mortal day, and depending on what happens after (or doesn't), maybe not even then.

If anything analogous to the Judeo-Christian God exists, it seems to me that it is inescapable that such a God either directly causes a given thing to happen, or at a minimum allows it to happen by choosing not to intervene and prevent it from happening.

At the low points of my life, it has been a source of both confusion and comfort that there might be some sort of reason for the pain that I or loved ones were suffering.

It's non-statement that posits nothing.

Actually, everything that happens happens for at least three reasons.

"Everything happens--"
"Don't say 'for a reason'"
"I wasn't going to. Just, everything happens."

Depends on what you mean by "reason." If it's merely a synonym of causality then yes, I agree with it. I don't believe that anything "just happens" (even at the quantum level) for no reason whatsoever.

But if it means "guided by some higher power or destiny" then no, even as a very convinced theist, I don't believe that everything is guided by some transcendent power "for a reason." I believe that most things are simply the result of causality.

In the Many Worlds theory of cosmology, one of the implications is that everything DOES happen... Therefore everything is predestined, yet it's not since you don't know which particular path you'll be aware of...

Unless quantum immortality is also true. Then to manipulate things in your favor, just make all the outcomes you don't want result in your death.

It would sure seem that way. Not putting a Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc. spin on things, there just may be an incredibly intricate mechanism to the universe that we as humans cannot yet understand.

Another point already brought up is to not get discouraged with "bad" events because because those events are neccessary to bring about the good outcomes.

The notion of non-causality is inherent in quantum-level physics. For example, the exact moment when an instable atom decays is random and the decay process itself has no cause. Do you believe that even probabilistic processes are actually deterministic?

I obviously agree with the rest of what you're saying, but this is in some doubt.

Romans 8:28,29 is still in the Book.

I believe that they may well be. I had a long discussion with a friend of mine who is a quantum physicist last summer about it, and he was unable to demonstrate that causality cannot exist at the quantum level. (He claims such a demonstration exists, but was unable to put it forth.) My position is that there are clearly some questions about quantum physics and/or relativity (since they contradict each other) and that therefore the claims made about them need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I have yet to see a convincing proof that causality does not exist at the quantum level; all I have seen so far is that according to our present understanding we have neither detected such causality nor been able to postulate how it could work. But since that is all postulated on "our present understanding" and the famous contradiction between quantum physics and relativity demonstrates that our present understanding is necessarily insufficient (though we don't yet know where), I cannot take it at face value.

No serious progress has been made in the understanding of physics in about a century. Despite impressive attempts, we are still working on the basis of almost unmodified versions of quantum physics and relativity as each was formulated in the early part of the 20th century. In another discussion a bit over a year ago with a man who is very qualified in theoretical physics, I heard the same thing that my friend the quantum physicist told me: String theory is not promising, at least at this point. The bottom line is we don't know.

And since we don't know, we should be careful about making dogmatic claims, based on our ignorance and the demonstrably contradictory nature of the theories we use.

Japanese martial artists in one particular style start their classes with the phrase "Shikken haramitsu daikomyo". Like so many Japanese phrases it doesn't translate very well, but roughly it comes out as a reminder (admonition?) to be aware that every moment and every event in every day carries the possibility of enlightenment. Put yet another way, there's a lesson in everything, which I think is a more positive acknowledgement that shit happens.

And I am glad for it. But I do not believe that that states or implies that "everything happens for a reason." It only states that God causes everything to work out all right for his own, when they consent to letting him direct. But even for them, there is a difference between "God works things out in the end despite whatever happens to them" and "Everything that happened was supposed to happen." And for those who do not want God to direct their lives, I know of no theological, philosophical or scientific principle that implies that everything happens to them for a reason. I don't think God "overrides" ordinary cause and effect very often, for those who don't want him doing it. He warns us we're on a wrong path and tries to convince us of it, but if we don't want his direction, it seems to me that he respects the free will he himself has given us.

This makes much better sense to me, philosophically, than "everything happens for a reason."

Yes it requires an active alertness to find the lesson instead of passive acceptance.

I believe in "shit happens".

It does, but you can either let it happen to you and do whatever it wants to you or you can engage and try to turn that experience into your advantage. Not saying that's easy or even possible, just an active philosophy to getting through that shit as opposed to a passive one.

i assume they don't really want to think or talk about it.

Sure, but sometimes it's just "Because fuck you, that's why."

Yeah. It's one of those sayings that sounds all mysterious and philosophical, but in reality it's like, "Welll no shit." Like when you're trying to find something, and "It's always the last place you look". Well, no shit it's always the last place you look unless you're a moron.