Can someone explain why this is *gasp* RACIST

Q.v. Post #203.

What do you mean by "Q.v."?

Could be "qui vive," could be "Queen Victoria," could be lots of things.

What do you have against Queen Victoria?

How many "racist" threads can Rightyforge start?

Nothing at all. I think Judi Dench did a marvelous job in Mrs. Brown.

"The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to this situation."

"The god-damned Germans ain't got nothin' to do with it!"

Elwood: "It says here on your license that you need glasses to drive.
So where are they?"
Driver: "I have contacts."
Elwood: "I don't care who you know in high places, they can't help you here, mister."

Re: How many "racist" threads can Rightyforge start?

Garamet's not that kind of guy.

I see. So your argument against free ID is "well, then they'll start talking about the cost of birth certificates."

Using the exact same logic, I could argue against the ID laws by saying "well, then they'll ask for two forms of ID, then they'll ask for three.

Which would be completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Much like your argument is.

Enough with the absolutist bullshit already.

Anytime you try to solve a problem with a solution that has side effects, you have to evaluate whether the problem is big enough for the side effects to be acceptable.

I guess up here we figure the better choice is to not risk losing a legitimate vote. There isn't much on there that someone doesn't have, and if you really can't get the ID, bring a friend!

You are so retarded, I'm surprised you have the brain cells required to draw oxygen.

More people are registered Democrats that Republicans, but Repubs consistently turn out--and not just for the Presidential elections. The GOP doesn't have to invent taxes to keep voters away...dem votes don't bother showing up.

Anyone over the age of sixteen in most states can get a state ID without holding a driver's license. I have one, and it's accepted everywhere Visa's accepted.

The birth certificate is something people should have on them anyway!

Using a bill seems pretty stupid, I'll grant you. Having a birth certificate and a SS card was all I needed for mine, but I guess the laws differ between the states.

NO, IT ISN'T!

IDs are used for more than just voting. You also need one for enlist in the Navy, and if I didn't have one, it would have cost me just as much in '09 to take care of that as it did in '04 when I turned eighteen and needed one for all the various shit I needed Id for in college. Funny, that.

Link?

That is indeed a good list.

yeah-and in the case of the photo health card, it's free and only legal residents have them.

brief tangent here into how the photo health cards have also reduced fraud of our single payer health care system.

If the side effect is some sniveling about marginal cost and inconvenience, I can live with it.

I think it's Queen Victoria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1Kgd65S0s

Would you care to actually disprove my point, rather than just following the philosophy "If I assert something loudly enough, it'll become true"?

Disprove what? An unsupported, wild-ass claim?

What's to "disprove" here? You're not dealing in facts. You're pulling a "I declare your argument a slippery slope, therefore all slippery slopes are now IN." Some asshat can claim the fraud problem is of marginal significance, but I can just as easily assert that the "economic disenfranchising" of people who are too broke-dick to get a goddamned ID is marginal. Then we're at an impasse, and the only way to break it is actual verification of facts. It's hard to get a head count of illegals and dead people who vote, so therefore they must not exist! Yay! Problem solved.

just as provable.

At least the presence of illegals is a known fact. We know where they mostly come from, and where they mostly go, and the numbers we can attach to it are way less ambiguous than this massive army of mythical creatures who are unable to function well enough to get a fucking state ID, but still competent to cast a vote.

'cause you seen it on the teevee.

'cause the guy with the perfect hair and teeth and the fancy suit and the makeup on your teevee told you it was true.

Where'd you get that dog, again?

From what I'm seeing, it isn't a "known fact" so much as a frequent, partisan assertion. No one has offered up a single shred of proof that this is somehow any more of an epidemic now than ever before or that the practice is limited to either party.

Not that it matters if one actual eligible voter is denied their ballot. Same rationale as better ten guilty men go free than an innocent one be imprisoned.

Besides, isn't that one of the things you define as American? the right of the powerful to do whatever they choose-up to and influencing the electoral process however they can afford to.

I'm not good with option #3 - the buddy system. That's easily abused. Political parties would be able to manipulate that without any trouble whatsoever.

1 and 2 are just dandy.

We have people who go over names and social security numbers on voter rolls all the time. Guess what? Illegals just don't vote at least not in any numbers and that's not surprising because they don't want the authorities to know their names or where they live thus they don't register to vote. If you're hiding from the law you don't tell the government where you live. Not to mention they don't have SSI numbers to complete the registration forms while fake numbers would quickly be found out by the data base search engines both parties now use.

It's very easy and effective just like an example of dead people voting hasn't happened (without getting quickly caught) in the last 40-50 years. Computers easily catch this shit and you better bet your bottom dollar both parties have operatives regularly scrubbing voting rolls. It just doesn't happen in any meaningful amounts.

Do you have anything at all to support this? Where are you getting this?

Or have big-ass loud-as-shit parades declaring that you're illegal in major American cities, right? Besides, the theory is that they're not using their own information, which is why state-validated identification is something worth having, so you don't get "Mark Smith" showing up fresh from the coyotes' safehouse.

once again, you excrete from the mouth...
as always, rather than discuss the conflict in perception, you fling negs and names, but no actual content.

He says "massive amounts!!!!" Isn't that good enough for you? And he has a Chihuahua. And we know where they come from.

You surrender any claim to being taken seriously when you resort to making shit up. Which is why garamet has to fight so hard to get any attention.