So Barry hasn't really begun to sell the country and our allies down the drain

Really? What disasters has he caused?

Where do you want to start. Libya, Egypt, Pakistan, Russia, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, etc. Those enough for you?

And he caused all of these situations, did he?

How did he accomplish that? By bowing?

Never said he was the sole cause of them. However, his clear inexperience combined with his incompetence and apparent lack of willingness to put people with experience around him (and listen to them) made all of these situations worse by far.

I'm certainly far from a McCain guy, but he couldn't screw these up as badly for the entire national deficit.

Ah, moving the goalposts, I see.

So how has he made these situations worse in a way that another president would not have done?

How did I move the goalposts?

Let's see

Pakistan-send in the SEAL's to kill bin-Ladin. Good move. Not shutting his trap and just saying "bin Ladin was killed by a spec ops team yesterday at an undisclosed location" to avoid public humiliation of Pakistan, stupid.

Egypt-hemmed and hawed for weeks before coming out in favor of anyone. Continued aid without conditions despite horrid abuses by both Mubarak and the military replacement.

Iran-never even came out and verbally supported the protesters in 09'. Total lack of any plan for dealing with the regime other than his fairy tale "engagement" idea.

Afghanistan-totally mismanaged during his admin. waffling on surge, then setting hard deadline to leave. Then negotiating with Taliban etc.

Russia-his reset button has done nothing but empower them to more belligerance and lack of cooperation.

Lybia-started bombing and set in motion yet another regime change where it was not our place and the new regime may well be worse than the old.

Syria-complete clusterfuck from beginning up end. Utter inability to get any international support and looked really dumb getting vetoed at the UN.


How's that for a start?

But you're a naive child without any comprehension of how the real world works. So your opinion is like that of any other toddler. Amusing to read about, but utterly irrelevant.

SO much ODS, so little time. But I'll try.

Undisclosed locations don't exist anymore (unless you're Dick Cheney). Everyone knew OBL was located in Pakistan when he was killed, there was no way to keep the news under wraps. What do we care if we "humiliate Pakistan?" They're harboring terrorists. The constant bitching and nitpicking from conservatives about the OBL operation is really unseemly, and I hope Obama comes back to it again and again during the campaign. The US had just knocked off its number one enemy, and people were complaining about pronouns and golf. Shameless.

I thought the conservative complaint was that Obama had thrown Mubarak under the bus. Did that change? Did Rush order a re-think? Whether the administration should have cut off military aid is a valid question, but when it's wrapped in the guise that both supporting and not supporting the Mubarak regime is wrong...it's pretty much not a valid question anymore.

And if he'd supported the protesters, he would have been throwing Achmadinajad under the bus, right? Iran is contained. Their nuclear program may or may not be close to functioning warhead, but even if they are, they'll never use it, because if they shoot off one, Israel will shoot off 100. Right now, the US is doing exactly what we should be. Or would you prefer another war?

Ah, yes. The surge was bad. Leaving is bad. The usual double standard. Afghanistan can't be managed. England couldn't do it, the USSR couldn't do it, and we can't do it. It's time to go.

I don't even understand what that means.

Um, what? We "started bombing" then the Lybian people rose up? Pretty sure that's not how it worked. And I love how it was wrong for Obama to not support the Iranian protestors, and it's wrong for Obama to support the Lybian protestors. You'd think conservatives would be thrilled that another international terrorist had been taken out, but as we learned from OBL, taking out terrorists is only good if you use the right pronouns and don't play golf.

Syria is a complete mess that we have no business sticking our fingers into, other than ensure aid gets to the people. Again, would you have us start another war?

Full of falsehoods and double standards, as usual.

P.S. The Cold War is over

Meanwhile, the GOP's drug of choice had to run his mouth:

Romney is right. Russia is a geopolitical foe. So is China.

China and Russia are not friendly countries towards the US the way the UK or Canada is friendly. At best you could say it's like frenemys. (Friends + Enemy's merged)

Stuff could quickly get out of hand and we could again be squaring off against the Russians and/or Chinese. Especially if the shit with Israel and Iran goes bonkers.

P.S. The Cold War is over

And 1950s rhetoric is exactly the way to prevent confrontations.

Not seeing the 1950's rhetoric. Just truth.

Re: P.S. The Cold War is over

The Obama appeasement plan hasn't been a resounding success. The best success against that area was Reagan's approach. Now, that is not applicable 100% anymore, but it is the best starting point for how to deal with them now.

They respect strength, not appeasement and surrender.

Re: P.S. The Cold War is over

Of course you aren't.

What terrible threats to American freedom has Russia made since January 2009?

Re: P.S. The Cold War is over

Klingons are funny that way.

K'PLAUGH!

Re: P.S. The Cold War is over

Well let's see. Since then they have not only thwarted our every effort to stop Iran's nuclear program, they greatly facilitated it by completing and starting up a nuclear reactor there.

They have thwarted every effort to sanction Syria for it's atrocities.


Then we come to China, which is threatening the surrounding nations and attempting to expand its territory.

They are supporting are propping up NK too.


These are a few examples. Since Obama has been in office these countries have seen that he has no spine or plan and they will do what they want. Regardless of how you feel about Intl relations, they are not friends of ours. Romney is 100% correct in this case.

When do you suppose that Palestinian state that he promised in 2008 will happen? He believed his own hype and actually thought he could command Israel to stop settlement expansions. Netanyahu certainly had no problem putting him in his place though. Still a banner moment in his foreign policy floundering.

How is New Start coming along? It won him a Nobel Peace Prize, but in actuality, the warhead reductions he got were already planned.

Are you satisfied with his handling of GITMO? Or was giving lip service to it enough for you?

Can you explain to me what his promises to 'engage' Iran and North Korea while he was candidate Obama yielded after reality set in? No spin, please.

Re: P.S. The Cold War is over

All of which are part of a long-term pattern of behavior on the part of these countries. It didn't just start in January 2009.

Unless you're prepared to say that of every president since the end of WWII - except Mighty Ronald Who Parted the Berlin Wall, of course - it really does smack of tunnel vision.

Meh. The Romney bluster doesn't do anything except play to the "Fuck, yeah!" crowd.

^ Yes those countries have behaved that way for a long time. That's not the issue here. The issue is Russia and China and their obstructionist policies that have gotten worse since Barry took over. Furthermore he made the claim that he was going to make our intl relations better. He has not. He has made them worse.

Wishing does not make it so.

Yep. Wishing that Barry wasn't a total fuckup doesn't make it not so.

I suspect that for every presidential administration in the last 50 years or more, you can find things that went wrong in the world and point and say "See? It was his ineptness that allowed this!"

Rightforge's comic desperation to find ways to make the world fit their predetermined narrative is fast becoming a self-parody.

Or was Bush responsible for, say, the genocide in Darfur? Or his father for allowing Slobodan Milosevic to come to power in 1989?

I realize this may make me an evil person, but I don't care about either Iran's OR Israel's wellbeing. I'm of the very old Washingtonian school. Stay away from foreign entanglements. It starts with good intentions, then quickly ends with you biting off far more than you can chew.

Not evil. It is one approach to foreign policy. The isolationist approach was used by the US up to WWII.

However, in this case Iran and NK have the ability to threaten our allies in Europe as well and US bases and territory directly. Israel is not the main beneficiary of this shield.

How is that NOT a bad thing? Were you high when you posted that, or are you actually retarded?

Missile bases in Poland are not necessary for two very simple reasons:

1) We dont need to have US bases in Europe any more. Germany is no longer an occupied enemy country. The US should withdraw all troops from Europe. If there is a threat bad enough that we need troops stationed in Europe, the UK will allow us to do it there, as would the Polish and probably quite a few others. If there isn't that much of a threat (and at present there is not), we are wasting money on maintaining those bases.

2) We do not need to "protect our European allies." The Europeans are rich and powerful. Let them finance their own protection. If we have better missile defenses than they do, they can buy ours. (They're our allies after all.) But it is not our responsibility to protect anybody in Europe from anything anymore. The war's over.

It is possible that my reasons are not the same as Obama's, but this is a decision on which I agree with him.

That's fucking rich coming from someone who thinks Obama is the first President to put controversial stuff off until after an election. I mean how could you be more of a naive child?

That's almost as bad as you making a nonsensical list claiming that post-Revolutionary Iran is all Obama's fault or claiming the US has fuck all to do with Syria.

You need to pull your head out of your ass more often and get some air to wha passes for a brain in you.

I never claimed any of the things you said.

Now go sit in your corner with your dunce hat and STFU unless you can can contribute something intelligent (which would be a first for you).