California High-Speed Rail: Later, Slower, and Way Over Budget

It DOES seem to work pretty well.

I see no reason why I should be "consistent" and say that because I like one thing the government funds that I should like ANYthing the government funds.

The government has the power to do many things. Not all of them are wise.

And it is more than a bit unwise for a very slim majority to burden everyone with the cost of this boondoggle while (1) the economy is in the shitter and (2) the state's finances are already far, far out of control.

I wouldn't have loved it. I wouldn't get behind it now. But what are we gonna do, give it back now just to satisfy the Commierail Booster Club up there that we're consistent in our views?

Then, there would've been no interstate, your ancestors couldn't have migrated to Nebraska, and you'd be dead.
Everyone would be dead.

You just killed everybody.
Proud of yourself?
Huh?
Happy with what you did?
Huh? Huh?

Yes.

Run it through the dishwasher first.

I just got off the phone with my Mom, Brother, Father, and Grandmother.

Translation, when I start feeling bad about not talking to those guys in a week or so, I am WAAAYYYYY to drunk (Unemployment FTW!) to post intelligently on HSR.

Catch you all on the flip side... or not.. I'll still be posting, just not intelligently.

My ancestors were farm kids who grew up driving on dirt roads. Pavement is nice, but I ain't the one who would be immobilized without it.

Huh. I thought I was the only one who had to get completely blitzed to talk to his family.

One bit of good news is the governor has said he wants to change some of the rules regarding EIRs so as to prevent NIMBYs using the laws to create endless work stoppages. Now lets see if the legislature acts on the governor's request.

Hooray for tyranny of the majority!

Let's not forget the three reasons why the project costs have gone up or the political party which has caused one of those major obstacles. Creating problems and then saying "see there are problems" just pisses me off and doesn't get me to give in to the terrorists.

BTW the new bay bridge was just completed with only slight cost over runs (total cost is still below the original bid from the US consortium too) and nearly all of those were due to delivery schedules slipping due to production delays in China.

And let's not pretend there would have been no cost overruns without the opposition. Let's also not forget the enviro movement which is 100% liberal and in the the Dem corner is opposing the project as well. Let's also not forget that many, probably 50% or more of the NIMBY folk are Dems as well.

Honesty is good if it's used all around.

Of the ass?

In what fantasy world do you live where the bridge is even close to done?

This will go all the way to the Supreme SCOTUS of the U.S. States.

Via high speed rail.

We should be using bikes and dikes because they work so well in Holland. Snerk.

Mega-stadiums and high speed rail are just prominent examples of big-spending projects designed more to empower bureaucrats than to benefit the greater good. Cost is always triple or more the initial budget estimates, consumption a small fractions of what was promised, etc.

Look at Obama-sponsored electric car battery plants we spent outrageous sums, and tell me it don't remind you of Soviets building products based on the manifesto, based on state-functionary estimates regarding jobs that never transpire, and demand for the products that never meet the underlying 5-year plan, comrade.

And people who point to europe as the model for the US transportation system might as well suggest we all buy malemutes and sleds and dog whips and travel on ice as already pointed out by an informed conservative or ten upthread. Blame the homestead act or geography or whatever, but it's a big country with dispersed population and varied terrain.

^We're not talking about a country-wide high speed rail system being imposed on us by politicians and bureaucrats. We're talking about a high speed rail system specifically connecting two or three high commerce, high population centers in one state, as voted on by the citizens of that state.

Interesting. I had always heard the story about Eisenhower taking a postwar tour across the country and being horrified at how difficult it was, and while that story seemed a little too simple and cute to be the whole thing, I figured it was still his baby.

Private enterprise is better at pricing and costing. By faaaaaar.

California is going backwards. It has over a third (36% by last count) of the country's welfare recipients, and an unemployment rate of over 10% (10.6 at last count).

It's a fucked economy, and "high-speed" rail is just another contributing reason, majority be damned.

Really?

17 bucks for a jar of the new Nutella ripoff JIF is putting out?

Really?

a sucker born every minute

Remember charleton heston with the jelly spoon in Soylent Green ?

But if the government did it...

It's a scarce commodity, peanut butter. No comprende ? A shame, I thought you had some basics down. Even wordforge had threads a year or less back about how much the price was gonna spike in the future.


With government, only the politburo would get the peanut butter in times of lean peanut yield. With free trade, only the rich stupid or both will buy the $17 JIF.

Tell me you really need that shit ?! It's a fat-man's indulgence (one I don't happen to begrudge), and it hardly supports the point you seem to think it supports.

Nah, it's ridiculous that anyone pays it.

And, it's ridiculous to charge it, really.

Like you yourself said, it's a foolish indulgence.

An overpriced product that doesn't need to exist in the first place, well, that's hardly the market being superior as a pricer.

Or, maybe I'm mistaking "superior", for "good", or "logical", or "just".

Better than turnip rationing?
I suppose...
Whoop de doo...

I didn't know about FDR's involvement until I saw a news story about it a couple of weeks ago.

I agree which is why I listed three main reasons including the NIMBYs ("I want tunnels" folks, enviro guys, and owners who want to sue rather then sell right of ways) plus general cost inflation which happens over time in every project. I'm sure even if the tracks weren't moved a half dozen times there would be issues but not a doubling of price so soon in the project; every time the tracks get moved they have to do a new EIR and reengineer that segment. Do it a half dozen times and that ends up being big money.

The main span is what I'm talking about. That's the most expensive part and yes the two most expensive parts (the tower and the huge one piece miles long steal cable assembly) are now in place.

http://baybridgeinfo.org/

I would have liked the bridge to have been entirely made in the US and there was one bid for that to happen but that way it. There were only four companies large enough and experienced enough in the US to build a huge bridge project like this but rather than compete the four decided to work together and split the project submitting one outrageously large bid ($2.2 billion). The former governor, to create additional competition, allowed foreign companies to submit bids and the Chinese submitted $1.4 billion while finally facing competition the US consortium dropped their price to $1.8 billion).

The Chinese won and have had $300 million in cost over runs to date but that's still only $1.7 billion which was $100 million then the lowest bid price from the US consortium and a cool half billion lower than their original bid. It would have been nice to do this using US made parts but it was clear the big four companies had a noncompetitive agreement between each other or else their bid wouldn't have been almost twice the other bids. We need to get these projects done in a cost competitive manner so we can't just let U.S. companies act like they're entitled to the work and let them stuff their bids with an extra $1 billion in costs.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...idge-may-have-been-lost-jobs-opportunity?lite

It's basically true. I don't remember the exact details, but it was part of a military exercise a year or four after WWI (not WWII). Eisenhower was, I think, the Lieutenant running the thing. The object was to find out how long it would take to get from one side of the country to the other at full speed using the US highway system. I think it ended up being something like 2 and a half weeks, an abysmal number.

The cable isn't wrapped. The causeway isn't finished. The suspension span isn't connected to the causeway.The westbound approach sure as hell isn't done. Oh, and the road isn't suspended.

You're a dunce. The welfare rate is lower than most states and the only reason it has so many is because it has by far the largest population. Second, it experienced the biggest bubble so it is now experiencing the biggest bust. It's as simple as that and in international recessions the big diverse urban states always take a bigger hit then the one horse agriculture economies of the small rural states. Just a fact.

Here's some more facts, if we looked at 2007 (pre-recession) numbers then California would have had the lowest unemployment rate of the large populuos states, far more individual income than the other big states (this is still true), and the highest small business creation rate. Your problem is you're stupid, don't know what you're talking about, and just reguritating lame political talking points without knowing any of the whys of the matter.

It that's what you want to do, fine, but don't mind if people who actually know what they're talking about laugh at you and your ignorance.