Shutdown Supporters, Now That It's All Over But The Crying....

.... do you still support the decision to shut down the government? Why do you think it failed (at least in it's originally stated goals)? When you see something like the below, what is your reaction:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-shut-down-the-government-for-nothing/280611/

Do you think it was worth it? What do you think it accomplished? Moving forward do you think it a good tactic and something the House Republicans should try again?

There is the theory that it was all about identifying the remaining RINOs in order to target them in 2014 primary challenges. Needless to say, I do not think that will advance the cause, whatever it actually is.

It accomplished nothing. It never was going to accomplish anything. The Democrats just had to wait the Republicans out. Obamacare isn't going anywhere.

Well, I take that back. Obamacare is the worst "reform" I've ever seen. Obamacare will be toast in a decade, but only because single-payer is either in or being phased in. Single-Payer is coming. No amount of stomping your feet will stop it. People will always vote for "free" things. The wise move would be to get in on crafting it now so you can weed out the things you find truly objectionable.

Elwood, I largely agree. Do you think the same folks who rejected the chance to participate in writing the initial law will take up the chance for input in any modifications? I have trouble understanding anything the Republicans have done around this for the past five years.

Probably not. We'll just see more tantrums. I'm going to touch the third rail. Abortion.

I have a moral problem with being part of a system that pays for non-medically necessary abortions on demand. I believe that rational people can disagree about the issue and we have a decade to work it out. That's preferable to the equivalent of holding your breath and stomping your feet.

Personally I'd prefer the Swiss (multiple non-profit/state supported insurance companies) or German (state insurance + private insurance) models to single payer.

@Elwood: The devils in the details on that one. I also oppose paying for non-medically necessary abortions, but I suspect we might not always agree on what defines medically necessary. Very hard stuff to figure out, but then, I want to take the time to find that answer, if it means we can get 90% there on the other stuff.

The way Asnyc described healthcare in France, which similar to insurance for a car, would be the best blend. The reason coverage is so high is because the companies pay the costs for everything from major surgery to visits for hangnail removal...prices would see a decline if people were allowed the option to pay more on small things such as visits and most prescriptions while having coverage for major and/or chronic illness.

Those options are part of the new exchanges -- check out the bronze plans. The problem isn't that the option isn't there, it's that people are accustomed to gold plans paid for by somebody else.

As has been made clear, what any of us prefer is meaningless. You'll get what they give you and like it or pay.

They looked childish, got slaughtered in the opinion polls, and came out with next-to-nothing to show for it. I doubt that they'll try a similar stunt three months from now - there's too much to lose with midterm elections starting to loom on the horizon. They need to salvage some popularity, because if there was an election tomorrow, they'd lose the House.

In the end, this was probably the last chance saloon for stopping the ACA. By the time another funding bill reaches the table, people will have already signed up, and found that they can actually get affordable healthcare. It's one thing to stop it from starting, but entirely another to yank it away from under people.

I can't link to it, but the House stenographer went batshit crazy after thevote on the bill and had to be fforcibly ejected from the chamber.

Here it is:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/16/house-stenographer-shutdown-vote/2998607/

and wow!

You know the best thing about liberals? Not only are they butthurt pissy whiners when they don't get their way, they are insufferable smug douchebags when they do.

What's even worse than that is they were right.

Speaking of butthurt pissy whiners...

I think Rush Limbaugh is an arrogant pussbag, but occasionally he hits the nail on the head:

The Republicans have now effectively destroyed the two-party system by becoming a national joke, and anyone who continues to proudly call themselves a Republican should be laughed out of office. They have strayed so far away from their founding principles that they have become dangerous to the continued welfare of this country.

And before the Democrats gloat too much, they are no better. Their policies of over-spending like drunken sailors with our hard-earned money while they live the life of luxury is beyond hypocrisy! They claim to be the party of the common person, but can you imagine Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, or Barney Frank actually giving a fuck about the average person? All they care about is VOTES! So they will pander to whatever group of people they can to keep getting elected and staying in power, all the while they live in their mansions and not have to follow the same laws as we do.

The truth about the Democrats is a simple one -- poor people vote Democratic, yet after all these years they are still poor! They've gotten no help at all, and the gap between the poor and the 1% continues to grow wider and wider.

Now that the Republicans have self-destructed, the time has come for Americans to stand up and vote out BOTH PARTIES!!! That's the only way we will ever bring about effective change. Vote Independent, vote libertarian, hell vote the Green Party! But stop wasting your vote on these evil, greedy morons who call themselves Democrats and Republicans! Any vote for them is a vote for continued corruption!

The number crunching still needs to happen, but I'd lay good odds that the shutdown actually increased the deficit.

I would've like to see this.

This may be a good opportunity to get some viable third party momentum. The tea party is going to target Republicans who voted yea on the resolution, and perhaps succeed in purging the remaining moderates. Hopefully some of them will go the third party route and run anyway in the general election. I would urge Democrats to vote for the so-called RINO party candidates because some of them might be able to win, but only with some cross-party help. If they do, then on the next cycle, perhaps some moderate Democrats might join them. A centrist party doesn't need that many seats to be effective, because it would force the other two to gain their support any time they want to achieve something.

Oh definately. Contrary to what some might think, shutdowns cost the .gov a lot of money. I think I heard this morning that some credit rating agency was projecting 20 or 30 billion.

The pro-shutdown default-denialist people prove to me once and for all, you really can bullshit people into being pro ANYTHING.

If I could find the right words to frame the argument, there's people here I could talk into eating ground up canned baby guts.

There really are no limits.

Oh give me a fucking break on the whole "Tea Party" bullshit! You act like they are some evil cabal running things from the sidelines. The Tea Party are not the whacko lunatic fringe you want them to be, and they do NOT have that kind of power, either. I can't speak for the other loonies that permeate the party which there are plenty. But you lot have gotten yourself so terrified of the so-called Tea Party that you've made them out to on par with Sith Lords rather than the grass roots movement that it is.

I think this has been posted before, but here it is again because it's exactly the truth of what needs to be done!!!

This is me trying to help you. Y'all got a real problem on your hands but you can't even see it. Instead of observing the world around you and thinking out a plan, instead all you do is attack the opposition. And where has that gotten you?

Weeks ago when this was starting to unfold those of us not living in the far right echo chamber warned those of you gleeful at the idea of a shutdown over Obamacare that it was a bad idea and the Republicans would be burned.

And what was the response from you and couple other posters lost in echo chamber?

HURRRR.... If the Libtards tell us it's a bad idea, you know it's good. They're just scared! HUUURRR

Even a week ago when polls were out showing this to be a disaster and rational people could see it was over, you had Paladin, someone considered an intelligent guy, saying that Republicans had the upper hand and that "Obamacare will be changed."

Well. Now that it's over do you still think that? Was it a good idea? What went wrong? Are you even going to stop and think about it, or instead just mutter something about a socialists, stuttering clusterfucks of a miserable failure, new cloths, not the droids and stumble yourself into the next loss?

Its just like eating scrambled eggs!

I'm not sure why we have to keep reviewing this for you, but here we go again!

• they are lunatics, they believe the shutdown was a good political tactic
• they do have that kind of power, as witnessed by Boehner and Cantor's kowtows
• my lot are not terrified by the tea party our views alternate between condescension and bemusement. That said, the idea that saner Republicans are losing influence over the nutjobs is definitely a concern.
• Sith lord isn't quite the term I'd use, but you are correct that the movement is manipulated in a controlling fashion by some sinister folks with an agenda (ie Koch brothers).

Whether or not the Tea Party started out as a grassroots is debatable, however if it wasn't originally astroturf, it was shortly after it gained prominence. All those 'Tea Party Insurgents' weren't funded by little $5 donations coming from the common man but by hundreds of millions of dollars dumped into IEs coming from billionaires.

Nobody won. We all lost. The Republicans just lost more.

Just think of all the political hay the Republicans could have made if they'd concentrated on the FUBAR exchange rollout instead of cutting their own throats by leveraging the shutdown/debt limit to defund Obamacare.