Hoist with their own petard: Texas voter ID law

See, I didn't even mention money in that post. In fact, I only mentioned the cost of a passport once.

What bothers me is the fact that you're suggesting some Americans need to jump through hoops to get a passport in order to get a state-mandated photo ID because the state they were born in didn't bother keeping records.

There's a hint of "Let 'em eat cake" there that I find disquieting.

I tend to skip over garamet posts or those posted in response to her.

That's the soup du jour around here, isn't it? Ass stew with a side of snark.

According to my better half, I'm always an ass. So I'm probably being an ass right now for interrupting.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail. ><

Edit: to garamet

I never said that. I simply gave a counter example to yours. I never said they needed to or had to. You did. I was simply stating a fact. That you can indeed get a photo ID without a BC.

You can do it on many state levels as well, for a lot cheaper.

Yeah, because otherwise you might discover how many issues you and I agree on, and how annoying is that?

Again, it shouldn't be necessary for some Americans to have to go through contortions to correct Stupid State Tricks. And, in some cases - let me post it one more time - even after years of fighting the bureaucracy, it's still impossible.

You are not getting what I'm saying on purpose, that is the only way.

Now, now, don't rush to judge. Anc or gul are probably not getting what you're saying on purpose, but don't discount that garamet is actually too stupid to understand you.

You're saying "If they don't have a birth certificate, they should get a passport." You seem not to understand that that's not always possible.

Got any examples of that in this thread? I'm one of those liberals from another country that you talk about, and my contributions have been to show another system that works perfectly fine without proof of ID at polling stations.

You dismiss any opposition to forcing id requirements as conspiracy talk, yet it's a stone cold fact that American politics has a fine tradition of spending a lot of effort on attempts to disenfranchise people those in power don't want voting.

I, too, am one of those liberals from another country.

Germany has a universal ID card system. Everyone has one. You don't have to show it to vote, unless there's some major mix-up -- something I haven't seen in 12 years in which I have regularly volunteered at polling stations. A variation of Bailey's system plus written notifications sent out to all registered citizens suffices.

Here's what this liberal from another country has said about your current new voting laws:

The system Bailey has described is identical to the system used in many states, such as mine. It identifies potential problems and has methods for dealing with them. I'm not saying everyone who is pro-voter ID wants to restrict voting rights. I'm sure that most are indeed motivated by fraud concerns (not the politicians, but the folks here in this thread). But the fact is that voter ID does not improve our ability to detect fraud, and has the very real consequence of disenfranchising some voters.

See, there's the thing... All the things Aenea points to as valid to get a passport in OK are good enough to let you vote here. The one almost universal piece of photo ID all adults have here is the health insurance card, and I've described how free and easy it is to get. (I'm not sure if all of the old series, non photo cards have expired yet? Pretty sure they have been retired though).

Sure we require ID to vote... but we'll take a very wide range of proofs. A task specific card would be foolish. Hell, we even did away with the age of majority cards for buying liquor as being pointlessly redundant.

Now THAT is impossible as far as I know.

You must have a proof of where you were born to apply for a passport.

The proofs Aenea offered involved Americans born overseas and what documentation they could use to get a U.S. passport (It's a very informative post upthread somewhere.)

Unfortunately, that won't help the little old lady born at home in South Carolina.

The "rationale" has gone from "Anyone [from our social caste] can get a passport and use that as a photo ID. (But why wouldn't they have a driver's license? Everybody [we know] has a driver's license!" through "garamet's deliberately not getting why this is no big deal" and will eventually end up with "So what if a few legitimate voters get disenfranchised? Illegal Messicans!!!! Dead people in Chicago!!!!"

I will let those without closed minds re-read my posts to figure it out if they still don't get what I'm saying. Rest assured it is not what garamet is proclaiming to be my point.

I'm still waiting why people who are so against voter ID so rapidly support all forms of restrictions on gun ownership. Both are guaranteed by the constitution after all.

I do admit I enjoy watching their attempts to justify such blatant hypocrisy.

Or you could stop playing to the gallery and say what you mean.

OMG, could you be any more pathetic? I suggested the same dilemma regarding the disconnect between your opposition to gun restrictions juxtaposed against your views in favor of voting restrictions, and you said I was hallucinating. You can't have it both ways, so I'll take this as an indication that you understand voter ID is an infringement. Too bad for you, my position on the two rights is consistent, whereas yours is not.

Really? Can you link to any post I've made opposing gun restrictions? I'll give you a hint, those buying handguns at 7-11 aren't.

I have. I gave a couple of options, one cheap, one not so cheap, but both of which you choose to disregard.

I've also said I really don't give a care. I'm from the don't give a shit generation, remember?

What I want is to make it easy to immigrate (sp), I say throw open the doors and tell them to come take our jobs, because so many obviously don't want them. Throw open the doors to polling areas and let me keep telling my local polling lady who I am and she nod her head and I vote. Make it easy to get guns and let me carry where I want including keeping my gun in a classroom in a secure area. (unloaded of course, I don't trust my kids that much ) Flat tax it and stop subsidizing everything, if it can't make it on it's own, it goes. Pull our military back and stop putting our men and women in harms way when other countries are unwilling to do the same. If that means chaos Fuck it, let it be. Peace is not going to be won through brutality and bloodshed. Government should be about roads, some military, education, and making sure our children our brought up in a relatively safe place. I would cut a large number of budgets to pore money into educating parents and children. If you don't want to be educated about parenting, your kids will be taken and put in a boarding school (started and run by the state) to be raised and educated as you don't care enough to go to a class once a week for a year. (daycare would have to be provided while class was in session)

This is part of what I want to see. Will any of it ever come to fruition? Hell no. So do I give a shit about politics at all. No. Would I rather there be chaos so your side doesn't get it's way either? Hell yeah.

I used you for a distraction's in my studying because I know you will bite every time.

I really don't care about the feasibility of any of the above as I know none of it will ever come about so it's just a dream. And in dreams things run smoothly.

That's the point, you don't. But you support voting restrictions. So what you accuse of others, is in fact the very same position you have taken, just flipping the rights in question.

Seriously...are you smoking SpaceTurkey's stash? You seem to be unable to comprehend what I've said...OK...let me explain it to you.

The buying guns at 7-11 is an exageration meaning no restrictions on guns....I ask if you support this since you seem to want no restrictions on voting.

I have never said there should be no restrictions on firearms purchases, I understand there needs to be. I also support requiring a real ID to vote, I don't consider this a restriction, maybe you do if you are OK with voter fraud, but whatever...lets say it's a restriction.

I support some restrictions on gun ownership and some restrictions on voting (even though it really isn't)....not seeing any conflict there.

My father in-law was born in 1930 in a house on Central Ave in the town in which we live. He has a birth certificate.

For The fuggin' Yams.

And this is the part where I either decide to take you both seriously and clarify that I did not at any time say "NO ONE born in the South prior to 1950 had a birth certificate" and then dig up stats about at-home births county by county only to discover that, like Aenea, you're just killing time and won't accept anything I post anyway, or I can point out that the people who have come forward because they have no birth certificate have been people of color who - I should not have to remind you - were barred from admission to white hospitals, at which point Castle and X will collide with each other in their eagerness to call me a racist for so much as mentioning that there's a history of racism in this country.

Or I can just go back to watching Downton Abbey and come back tomorrow to watch Archangel explain some more about how a gun and a vote are exactly the same thing.

Wow, tough choice...

As has been pointed out, votes have killed more people than handguns.

But you already knew that....unless your dementia is acting up again.

But it is nice that you're completely comfortable with your hypocrisy. And yes you senile old bat, you are one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum.

Just a reminder to you also, you still aren't nearly as clever as you think you are.

1) Voting is public record.

No, HOW you voted isn't public, but the fact that you voted is. Sometimes it costs to get access to voter records, sometimes it is free, but it is available. This is a fact. Go check your own state and you will see. This is how parties, pollsters, campaigns target people. EVERYONE in the political sphere has it, its studied sliced and diced 19 different ways.

2) In person voting fraud is not a problem.

It simply doesn't happen to any extent that would throw an election. Does. Not. Happen. If it did it would be caught. See point 1.


So considering that in person voter fraud is NOT a problem, why the push for IDs?

It's so cute how you all keep repeating there is no voter fraud when there is virtually no way to actually tell if there is.

You should try actually reading my post dumb ass. I lay out the exact paper trail that exists to catch in person voter fraud.


How about this. Describe a scenario of in-person voter fraud that in your mind is going on. Go on. Lay it out. Tell me how you think a person without a picture ID can walk up and vote for someone else without it being caught.