Repub wishes Cuccinelli won, therefore vote fraud!

We had a similar thing happen here when one of the local Republican congressmen decided to troll for red neck votes by bashing Mexicans in general and claiming that even Mexicans who come across on day visit visas could easily become illegals (which isn't really true as they'd still have to get through the Border Patrol check points at the county line). Several insulted Mexicans, many of them quite wealthy as Tijuana has the second highest number of Mexican millionaires after Mexico City itself, decided to organize a boycott of American retail stores as a result and all of the major malls and retail establishments couldn't post Spanish language ads down in TJ fast enough saying how much they valued their customers from south of the border. The reality is the Mexican middle and upper classes really do love to shop at high end US stores in border cities like San Diego, and they're willing to splash out more cash than even wealthy Americans, simply because going to shop at high end or boutique stores "in America" is considered a very trendy and hip thing to do. They'll make it an all day affair going from Nordstrom's to Sak's 5th Ave, to god knows what other high end places buying status symbols like Italian made suits, British made designer leather shoes, Apple's latest gadgets, and then take the whole family to some fancy restaurant. That's a lot of money to retail and service sector businesses around here and they sure as hell didn't want to give such customers up even if Mexicans only make up 10%-15% or so of total sales.

Again the opposite is true as well. How much do rural areas benefit from their proximity to ports and other 'big city' infrastructure and markets.

Probably disproportionately more than urban areas as much more of their total output would be dependent on such services. Still, it would be a question I would like to know the answer to as long as, as you pointed out, the same is done for purchases made by urban folks visiting rural areas (like wineries or bulk purchases of agricultural goods or what not). I'm fairly certain that the balance would still be very lopsided in favor of rural areas benefiting off of urban areas simply due to the number of people and the relative differences in wealth but putting real numbers to this could conclusively tell us one way or the other.

Interesting piece, thanks for posting it. A couple of points, of varying relevance.

1) I would be interested in getting the actual transcript of the discussion. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm wondering how much is interpretation on Joel's part. While I don't doubt there was talk about rural values and even military service, I highly doubt the guy said 'we subsidize rural areas b/c they make us soldiers'.

2) I didn't realize he had hit the rural depopulation point yet. It was inevitable. Most of the people living in rural areas weren't directly engaged in 'rural activities' (agriculture or resource exaction) but were instead 'support staff'. Now that the pharmacy, hardware store, dry goods store, furniture store, electronics store, grocery store and liquor store have all been replaced by a regional WalMart (and now Amazon), the local insurance agent by Flo, 1st State Bank by Wells Fargo, etc. etc. etc. the demand for support staff has crashed and there is excess population.

3) Unless something is done, this depopulation trend is only going to continue. Not only is the rural population shrinking, but it is getting older, meaning that the pace is going to quicken as time goes on.

4) One of the bright spots has been rural small towns that developed before the automobile and are within 2-5 hours of an urban center. In areas that have enbraced it there has been a kind of rural gentrification/rural renewal. As cities have gotten more and more expensive and the old abandoned warehouse and factories that WERE artists lofts are either torn down to build highrises or converted into luxury apartments, the abandoned store fronts of 'quaint' but still walkable small towns have become a sort of refuge. Gallery space/workshops/storefronts on the bottom floor, living quarters up top. Coupled with the localvore movement which got some of the more DYI hipsters hooked on growing their own food and deciding urban agriculture is too constrained and are looking to move to 'real farming' (but again, want the walkable downtown) and some formally beat down small towns are seeing a Renaissance.

Hell, things like farm subsidies and tax revenue transfers from urban areas to rural areas has actually greatly slowed the long term trend of rural depopulation and small towns dying in the US. It's still happening but much more slowly than it would other wise have been. To see how bad it could get look at Australia where even the medium sized towns/cities are dying while most of the small towns are ghost towns now. The whole population of the continent seems to be settling in just five major cities because that's all Australia can seem to support economically. They've had a much, much worse time with the depopulation of rural areas and small to medium sized towns than we have and it all comes back to the massive transfers of tax money to rural areas in a vain attempt to keep economically unviable areas viable. The hard truth is cities are where commerce, social interactions (which lead to new business opportunities), and that critical mass of customers happens. In Australia the only small or medium sized towns which are doing well are towns based on natural resource extraction where people HAVE to go there to get what they're looking for. Other than that it's all dying even formerly prosperous agricultural market towns have found that automation means there just isn't the need for so much farm labor and so there just isn't as much demand to support local businesses. They can't even support local bank branches or post offices.

I'm sorry, but how long did you live in eastern Washington? I lived it, not just looked at spreadsheets and dry statistics on the Internet. I'm not saying western Washington steals money from Eastern Washington, I fully understand how much taxes the West Side gives vs the East side. I'm just saying I don't enjoy losing a wheel in a pothole on the freeway, or getting hit in the head with bits of concrete when I walk beneath a bridge. But apparently what we get is more than enough, so fuck Eastern Washington. Oh, and we like being Washington residents, not Idaho residents. Fuck that snotty "you don't make enough money or have Microsoft so you don't deserve to be in Washington State go live in Idaho" Westside mindset.

I'm hearing lots of emotional outbursts but very little in the way of reasoned rebuts to the facts raised.

The thing with the potholes and crumbling bridges, they are everywhere in America. We chronically under spend on infrastructure upkeep across the board. That is not just a rural problem. And it's not a problem created by cities hogging maintenance budgets.

Westside.....Eastside......

All you damn hippies should just make a musical......

This is an argument not worth having with sneering big city people. Forget I mentioned it.

I just got finished cutting up a Lemon OG, working on a Critical Jack next... I'm pretty sure I can make everyone forget about everything for a while.

I'll take an extra large scotch, please.

You know what this place needs? A whiskey thread. Not a drunk thread, but an appreciation thread with reviews, etc. The beer and vaping threads are lonely.

Old Crow FTW.

Crow sauce? Whew, that's the Rot gut! Might as well get a bottle of Canadian Hunter.

"I don't always drink whiskey, but when I do, I prefer Wild Turkey."

No.

You lie like a rug and make shit up. That's not forgivable or forgettable and it's always worth pointing out. Seriously, read what you posted in this thread.

Urban areas subsidize rural areas. The extent to which that might or might not be appropriate is debatable. Whether it happens or not isn't. If you deny that it happens then you're a liar, a fraud, and not even slightly connected to reality.

You are a cunt, and you don't live in my state. Stop pretending like you know anything.

Um, Liet? You're really getting close to the deep end there. Aren't there better targets?

Liars and trolls who are for some reason in good standing are the best targets. That boy is a liar and a troll, full stop.

Whatever you say, little man.

Scene: Lonely western highway at twilight, a car sits on the side of the road, hood up, steam rising from the radiator. A man paces back and forth, trying to make a cell phone call.

Liet: Work damn you! Hello, triple A?? Hello!?....shit!

Liet sees headlights coming, suddenly scared he steps into the bar ditch and tries to hide as a truck pulls up.

A man in overalls leans out of the pick up window...

Man: Need help?

Liet: (now standing) Help? Help me? I live in New York! I pay taxes! I subsidize all this shit, you should be asking me for help you ungrateful cretin!!

Man: Suit yourself. (Drives off)

Liet goes back to trying to get his phone to work...

Fade to black...

*Coyote howl*

On the upside, being in rural America, chances are the next person would stop for him too, so he'd have another chance.

But being in rural America, wouldn't it be a couple hours before the next person came along?

HOLY FUCK YOU DID NOT JUST POST ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE USING "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I"?????????

Why do you think I stopped several pages ago?

That doesn't help, either.

Is it your perception that Liet was doing anything other than that?