Universal basic income vs government provided living utilities

how does that differ from what is in the New Testament?

Do you know what Calvinism is?

Following the teachings of Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes fame)?

No, it's the other end that is the mistranslation. Cities at the time closed their main gates for the night. They'd have smaller door by the side where people could get in if they convinced the guard, but only alone and on foot, with insufficient width for carriages or larger animals. This actually colours in the whole simile, because the rich man is the one with the animal as opposed to the pedestrian, and Kingdom Come is often represented as a city you want to get into.

This is what you took from your Lord saying it way very hard for rich people to do? That it was equally hard for people of any wealth?

I know what Calvinism is. (Hi! I'm a Calvinist!)

"Because the way I see it God only promised to save a 'remnant' of humanity from hell" is not an idea that is exclusive to Calvinism.

I know, I wasn't being fully serious with the first post calling him a Calvinist, but his response did seem to indicate that he didn't know what Calvinism was so that question was genuine.

*shrugs* Here's what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

No.

It literally means that it would be hard for something as large as a camel to pass through something as small as the literal eye of a literal needle. All this stuff about gates and cities is nonsense that isn't supported by evidence of any reasonable kind.

A quick treatment on that here:

https://www.gty.org/Blog/B150914/frequently-abused-verses-what-is-the-eye-of-a-needle

You know Calvin from the comic strip is actually named for Calvin the theologian/philosopher? Just as Hobbes is named for Thomas Hobbes? I've no idea as to the deep cosmic meaning of that, but it is interesting.

Interesting. I only ever learned the gate version. I still think it makes the most sense, but thanks for pointing that out.

With texts like these, I think frequent mistranslations are highly likely. There is even uncertainty about how many times, and from which languages into which, the texts of the Bible and Koran have been translated (or edited to smithereens or otherwise thoroughly buggered).

Which leaves the Devout walking on pretty thin ice.

There's very little doubt among even secular scholars that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic and that the New Testament was written in Greek. Although it is well known that manuscripts with textual variants exist, there is also very little doubt even among secular scholars that we are in possession of the original wording of the New Testament and not much doubt that we are in possession of the original wording of the Old Testament.

The ice (as it were) is far from thin.

True.

False.

It's curious that there are simultaneously so many people who think society is on the verge of destroying itself and collapsing into barbarism, and so many who think that now is the time to dream about UBI.

My position is basically "socialism or barbarism", so this is quite apropos.

Have you heard of Venezuela?

Their socialism is barbarism.

That's socialism gone wrong, for sure.
Unfortunately, it's become a poster child for socialism.

It's socialism gone normal.

It's not just Venezuela. Cuba. Zimbabwe. North Korea.

Socialist countries that embraced capitalism and are moving away from socialism are prospering; just look at China and India.

Some of the reasons society could be in trouble are the same reasons a UBI or similar may one day be needed.

UBI might not be economically sustainable, much less if society is in upheaval and headed for the worse.

The thing is socialism ALWAYS "goes wrong".

At least that is how leftists have defended socialism and communism for generations

"(insert name of country here) didn't do it the right way so that doesn't mean socialism won't work"

The US is more socialist than the 'socialist' countries.

Yeah, the Leninists have a lot more in common with the Republican Party (in that they end up with a tiny corrupt clique controlling society, sinking huge amounts of resources into the military, and believing in a completely fantastic ideology to justify it all) than they do with the US left.

Well, no one here is arguing for collective ownership of the means of production, so all this talk of socialism is misplaced. UBI would be more like extending the Nordic model to its logical conclusion.

Calling BS on this one.

But socialism and capitalism can coexist in the same society...

Hasn't, as far as I can tell, gone wrong in Scandinavia.

I'd say they're defending the principle vs the practice. In principle, Communism has some interesting, perhaps 'good' ideas. In practice, it got abused and showed its inherent weaknesses, just as pure Capitalism has good ideas but is prone to abuse and has its weaknesses.
I'm sure I'm not quite on the mark here, but I think socialism takes some ideas out of both playbooks and tries to create a balance, but lends itself more toward the communist side. It makes for my perception that a balanced society would marry the ideals of socialism and capitalism (state services and, if not necessarily with, free market enterprises) to be the most successful.

On the ironic note: Mormons embraced a Communist society caled the United Order when they first arrived in Utah, before the Soviets adopted Communism. But Mormons reject Communism while waxing poetic about the United Order

Who cares about the Mormons?

The only thing to commend them is that they believe in clean living and vote Republican.

No, they are antithetical to each other.

I'm not convinced of that. I think government/industry partnerships and cooperation have a place in a modern economy.

It's part of my economic plan if I ever became president for example.