Tighty Righties think AOC would be so much prettier if she "smiled"

Do you mind leaving the fundamental dishonesty out of that statement?

Sure. What fundamental dishonesty? If I'm mistaken, then feel free to correct me.

Yes, she was high fiving the air.

Cool. I didn't see that.

Well, over his eight-year administration race relations became much worse, so perhaps he achieved even more than you give him credit for. Based just on your history of posting, he certainly taught you something. But maybe your naysayers are wrong, and you really think stoking hate based on (what many would see as) a false narrative will help America move forward in a constructive mutually beneficial way. [Hey, no one gave you a monopoly on playing deluded.]

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/video-ocasio-cortez-high-fives-the-air-during-sotu/

We've all been left hanging.

I just thought it was funny.

I would be careful with equating the most successful outcomes with the most ideal system. After all if we look at China it seems that a combination of communism, state oppression, and capitalism is what results in what may be the most rapid and successful elevation of living standards in human history.

The real problem is this:

Reagans election happened closer to WWII than the present day, yet we still see the talking points of his time trotted out as if the world hasn't changed.

Capitalism has done a lot of good yes, but on the other hand we now have a whole generation falling behind where their parents were at the same age. Capitalism increases overall standard of living as long as there is space to grow, new wealth being generated for all to share in. WWII burnt the world half to the ground and in those ruins we rebuilt, expanded. An unprecedented era of peace and trade (at least for the Western world) that was the perfect fertile ground for growth and opportunity.

We are no longer in that era. For many people their experience of capitalism isn't it forging new paths and creating new opportunities, it's of it turning inwards and eating itself. Why bake a bigger pie when you can just cut yourself a bigger slice.

You say we should look at what capitalism has done? The newer generations are way ahead of you, they have been watching, they have seen where things are going, and they don't like what they see.

Increasingly, the gains in productivity are going to the top. As big corporations swallow up more and more of the economy, so too is the disparity in wealth growing. Telling people "but the economy has grown!" doesn't help them when they are working less hours than their parents did, are less financially secure than their parents were at their age, and are facing uncertain futures.

Most don't want the end of capitalism. Sure you can find some extremists on any subject, but for the most part they just want a system that will bring back the promise of making their futures better, of giving them a world they feel secure bringing children into. If you sat down and asked all the questions I'd be willing to bet most still don't even want full on socialism. Conservatives have shot themselves in the foot though after they have spent decades decrying anything slightly left leaning as socialism.

Education that doesn't send you into a houses worth of debt? Socialism.

Getting paid a minimum wage that at least matches inflation? Socialism.

Not having to worry about going bankrupt if you go to hospital? Socialism.

Socialism, socialism, socialism. The boogeyman term by those who still think Reagan is sitting in the White House, holding back the red hordes.

It doesn't work anymore. All that's happening is that young people are looking around the world, seeing all the free nations where these supposed "socialist" things are happening, where that promise of a good life seems to survive, and thinking "Well if that's socialism then socialism ain't too bad."

Y'all keep on thinking you're dealing with a lightweight.
Be my guest.

It's easy.

Within ten years:

Every single building in America will be torn down and rebuilt. (or upgraded)

A total move to clean energy. Complete elimination of fossil fuels.

Repair and upgrade U.S. infrastructure.

Rebuild the entire energy gird.

And that's just for starters. Clearly we'll need a hell of a lot of people working to do all of that.

I thought it was a joke but apparently she's serious: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5729035/Green-New-Deal-FAQ.pdf

Imagine tearing down a city the size of New York City.

This lady is nuts.

Food & Health & A Lifelong Living Wage For Everyone Unwilling to Work
- Green New Deal, A. Ocasio-Cortez, 2019

Capitalism has also produced failed states, be wary of selection bias.

I'ma just sit back and watch the "OMG! SOCIALISM!" Song play out...I don't think it will work as well in this generation as it has before but we'll see.

OMG I'm in love!!!!!

Actually the real irony is that the people I've seen embrace the fantasy that socialism would work are more often than not privileged bourgeoisie, who in turn hate on the working class who are the actual proletariat. Like all those laid off "journalists" who are getting trolled by the same smug "advice" they were giving coal miners not that terribly long ago.

I'm suddenly reminded of the identity politics types. I wonder why.

Vietnam seems to be doing rather well, as I've pointed out more than once.

Seems they dodged the bullet

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

Yes it does.

You've characterised the idea that socialism "can work" as a fantasy, completely ignoring the thousands of examples of cases where socialist systems and policies have been massive successes. You've also failed to mention the many times capitalism has failed, producing in some cases countries in far worse state than the usual bogeymen of Cube and Venezuala.

Your opinion of me means nothing to me. If you had a real argument you would have used it by now. Instead I get pathetic insults.

"Socialism is such a wonderful thing."

Says no one in Venezuela today.

Capitalism has its faults, but so far it has worked. The medical bit could work out if we could break Big Pharma who is out-of-control and if hospitals were transparent about pricing. A little competition would change things. Where the hell else do you buy a product having no idea of the cost and are required to pay for whatever is put on the bill. Why should insurance make rates rise and dictate both were you go and who you see. At times, they even function as medical people, or so it seems by their "decisions," which 99% of the time are made with an eye to their profits, no matter what the patient really needs.

Our medical system is broke and neither party gives a damn to fix it (or immigration when it comes to that) because the current situations either benefit them directly (lobbyists and money) or politically. The answers are there - the will to fix things is not. From where I sit, politicians of either party are to blame.

But yeah, let's do socialism. People are so fucking stupid. Let's try the SAME DAMNED THING again as others have tried and failed and THIS TIME, it'll WORK.

Uh huh.

How's capitalism worked out in Sierra Leone?

The problem with throwing these examples round is the tendency to focus on specific examples which suit the case being made and (in many cases) assuming those examples hold as illustrating a pattern. Capitalism hasn't "worked thus far", it's had some successes and some failures, the best examples of how these systems (or more appropriately policies) operate being those which work in the specific context. Much of Europe operates with carrying degrees of socialist policy making and somehow remain in the G7.

There have never been pure examples of any of our current "systems", but there have been many hybrids which have leaned in one direction or another. Successes and failures have been represented on all sides of the multifaceted political coin.

Okay, I was under the impression that guaranteed work for all has never been successful. Can you give me an example of it working?

I didn't say it has, but she's advocating several things of which that is but one. Socialist =/=Third world, that's an idepological myth with no basis in reality. I think if we totted up fairly we'd find a pretty even spread of systems throughout the 3W, much as we find a pretty balanced set of hybrids throughout the 1st.

The US sits way to the right of its' peers, always has and one popular truly left wing voice is hardly a threat to the future of the country. On the contrary she seems to be serving a very valuable role as counter balance.

Okay, but I didn't say Socialism = Third World. I was specifically talking about the "guaranteed jobs for all" part of the Green New Deal.

The perception of Socialism as third world is a hangover from the cold war, where anything associated with Russia was deemed to be evil, anti American and to be reviled.

I've pointed out numerous examples recently of capitalist countries in far worse state the Venezuala or Cuba, demonstrated time and again the oft demonstrated efficacy and economic sustainability of universal healthcare, pointed to numerous "socialist" nations which are thriving and crucially pointed out that the idea of an actual example of a pure system is an abstract concept unrealisable in practise.

It's remarkable how the demographic of resistance to those ideas is so specifically American. Europeans are typically much more open to the a more balanced (and evidence based) viewpoint. That's because the "red scare" isn't rooted in objectivity or evidence, it's a learnt prejudice, an ideology stemming from cultural norms.

That was a typo. I meant to say, "I didn't say Socialism = Third World". I was talking specifically about the "Guaranteed Jobs for All" part.

Gotcha

That right there will create millions of jobs - you'll need lots of people to work pedal-powered generators!