So, Uh, China Seems Cranky

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Tuckerfan, May 26, 2020.

  1. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Let me counter: Hungary, 1956.

    (And I'll note that the Suez Crisis did partially tie the US' hands in the matter, but common sentiment, according to my grandfather who escaped Hungary to Belgium in '57, was that the US encouraged the revolt then did nothing when they occurred. Obviously, it's much more complicated than that).
  2. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Hungary was already under Soviet control. The people were protesting and got put down.

    It's the same thing with Hong Kong. China is already running Hong Kong. The people are protesting and they are being put down.

    Are we going to step in and stop China and kick off WWIII? Nope.

    But Taiwan?

    You better believe we will be there if China is stupid enough to try and invade Taiwan.

    Just the same as if the Soviets had decided to roll into West Germany.
  3. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    In a way, I hope you're correct (not that I want war to kick off, mind). But...
  4. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    I don't want war either, even thought I do think we are headed that way, but we can not let China take Taiwan.

    The repercussions in later years would almost certainly get us involved in a war against China anyway. Just the battlefield would have changed. Instead of Taiwan it could be Japan or South Korea.
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  5. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Reminds me of another superpower...
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  6. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Why not?
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Or we'll have a world order dominated by the benevolent Chinese Communist Party.
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  8. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    they need a consumer market besides their own. They'll keep us happy and buying their stuff.
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  9. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Doubtful.

    Believe it or not the world doesn't generally see you as our only defence against the great evils of China, nor do we conform to the underlying assumptions that we are all partisan in our support of you as the dominant superpower (as you seem to suggest with "the Western Powers"). Most of us will just as happily trade with China as with the US and whilst their current human rights record is pretty dire your own is historically not much better pre Pax.

    What you really mean is "in order to maintain our own dominance we'll have to push back against this rival and naturally we expect other Western nations to support us and not them".
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  10. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Trump loves Xi. The transitive property means you do too.
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  11. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    And all those computer chips that go in our computers, missiles, and GPS sets. :bergman:
  12. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Maybe you could persuade Trump's base that Bill Gates can be trusted with that sort of thing?
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  13. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Classy Fellow

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    The CCP needs to deflect from its failures vis a vis the pandemic, and so engages in a bunch of nationalism-driven controversies. Remind you of any other leadership close to home?
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  14. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Exactly.

    And while the two self obsessed, bloated behemoths play with fire measuring dicks and dodging responsibility the rest of us are inevitably drawn in and expected to be happy about it.
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  15. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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  16. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Oh fuck
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  17. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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  18. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Oddly a guy I regularly play chess with in India (Rahullak, you know him) had heard nothing about this as of a couple of hours ago.
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  19. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    because it's not even news there. India & Pakistan have been fighting over remote sparsely populated mountains above the timberline for decades, so similar disputes with China carry about as much importance.
  20. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    Apparently so, in fact he seems to feel this is just run of the mill and being used as misdirection by our media.
  21. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  22. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Two nuclear armed powers trading shots in the region. What could possibly go wrong?
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  23. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    As a purely academic matter, it would be interesting to see China's shiny, new blue-water navy go up against India's which is very respectable in the region.

    I repeat, as a purely academic matter. Before the the echo chamber starts frothing at the mouth and breaking out the warmonger name-calling.
  24. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  25. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Don't worry, I'm already mentally cussing out Dayton for wanting it to be a live exercise :bergman:
    The entire Pakistani-Indian-Chinese border conflict is a massive clusterfuck, and frankly the Brits are to blame for this. While Bangladesh (née East Pakistan) and India were finally able to sort out their border irrgularities and exclaves/enclaves, the thinking behind a Hindustan and Pakistan just made a bloody mess of everything, and fucked over the Sikhs -- especially after Kashmir opted to join India and Pakistan said no.
    And, the worst of it is, China and India are having issues with the border with regards to Aranchel Pradesh, wherein China claims nearly the entirity of one of India's easternmost states.
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  26. spot261

    spot261 I don't want the game to end

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    To keep it in proportion these events are pretty much routine, it's just that for some reason we in the west hear very little about it most of the time then for some reason a particular incident gets a bit of media attention.

    I'm not dismissing the danger but offering a little context.
  27. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  28. Zor Prime

    Zor Prime .

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    Wouldn’t China crush India in any sort of conflict?
  29. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Not like you're probably thinking. It would definitely be a fight. India has a fairly powerful regional military, an aircraft carrier equipped navy, submarines, and a nuclear arsenal. They've also got a huge population / manpower pool, second only to China itself.
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  30. Midnight Funeral

    Midnight Funeral Cúchulainn

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    If Taiwan makes it known that invasion would be a red line that results in them blowing up the three gorges dam, it should keep China in check.