Apparently "Master Bedroom" is now racist

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by We Are Borg, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    Kal-el is not even Earth-human, let alone North American or even white ethnicity. So why not let someone who looks exotic play Superman? It would be more faithful to the premise of the story.

    As for Lois Lane, despite the name, it is enough that a Latina mother married a guy named "Lane" (who could have been half Latino himself) and Lois could very well look thoroughly Hispanic. Or the same thing could be done for Asiatic, or black, or any other ethnicity.

    What difference does any of that make?
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  2. Forbin

    Forbin Do you feel fluffy, punk?

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    The Superman on Supergirl is too damn short.
    Or that a heightest statement?
  3. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Superman needs a certain look when played live-action. Chris Reeve had the right look. Brandon Routh had the right look, tho I personally thought the "S" emblem on his version of the suit was too small. Dean Cain always looked vaguely uncomfortable when he was Superman, like he didn't really want to be in the suit at all, tho other than that he looked good in it. Henry Cavill plays the role way too angst-y tho that may be more directorial than actor. His version of the Superman suit looks awful, tho. The guy on Supergirl is too skinny and overall puny-looking. And good old George Reeves wasn't bulky enough, tho he captured the character and confidence of Supes pretty well.

    Basics: Superman needs to be relatively big, like around 6'2" or so, broad shoulders, square jaw, well-proprotioned. His ethnicity is less important, tho historically he's always been portrayed as caucasian, unless he was being poisoned by green kryptonite or affected by red kryptonite. There are various Superman knock-offs of other persuasions who have been pretty interesting . . . Milestone's Icon character, for example. And if you want to get really out there, the Martian Manhunter is a Superman expy who's green and funny-looking and has a few extra powers tossed in.
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  4. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    tenor.gif
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  5. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    And on that tangent, I would also say that I'd also like to see more stories featuring PoC and not ones being retrofitted for inclusion points and a quick cash grab. Like what Jordan Peele has done for horror films, but for the other genres.
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  6. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Exactly this. The first concern should be telling a good story, not checking off the "woke" boxes.
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  7. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Shit, Lanz agreed with you.
    Now Superman needs to be a blasian trans lesbian with dyslexia and PTSD.
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  8. The Exception

    The Exception The One Who Will Be Administrator Super Moderator

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    Everyone uses race or gender changes as a "gotcha" moment, but I think we can agree there are limits as to how far you can stretch things by replacing people and not altering anything else within the source material.

    I don't believe people are necessarily being racist or sexist when they resist changes to beloved childhood stories, some are for sure, but I think it's a little reductive to simply state their resistance is racist or sexist in nature. There are some things that are part of the core of the audience's understanding of a character. Can you replace Captain America with a black man? Sure, because his race isn't integral to his background or character, he's fighting for the American Dream, regardless of race. Can you replace Black Lightning with a white guy? No, because his race is a part of his character and his reason for fighting.

    With that said, there are some repetitive stereotypes in comics that need to be addressed, for example, why are all the gadget superheroes wealthy white dudes?
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  9. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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  10. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending 14th Level Human Cleric

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    Forge. I know, it's only one example, but it is an example. Unless of course, I am misunderstanding what you mean by "gadget superheroes".
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  11. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    I've never heard of either of those until you posted links.

    I'm going to bet 99% of the population, outside of comic nerds, haven't heard of them either.

    I'm also going to bet if you ask the average person about "gadget superheroes", they're going to immediately say Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark.

    So @The Exception is largely correct.
  12. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    You don't remember the Shaq movie? I never saw it, but I remember it coming out.
  13. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Psylocke started off Caucasian (is the sister of Captain Britain), had some incident involving Revanche that was essentially a body swap, I think in the Mojoverse. Might've been in one of the early issues of Excalibur I missed.
  14. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Reverse Othello comes to mind.
  15. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    The Milestone line got a good deal of press at the time due to being black-owned and created. Later bought/merged/eaten by DC comics. Steel got started in the infamous "Death of Superman" storyline of the 90s that got national media attention. Might not be quite as unknown as you think, but yeah . . . Joe Blow on the street is going to think of Tony Stark.
  16. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    I thought Idris Elba was fricking awsome as Heimdall. I don't care that it didn't make a lick of sense.
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  17. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Psylocke is up there with Hawkman in terms of ridiculously convoluted backstory at this point.
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  18. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    On Earth 23, he's Calvin Ellis, a black Superman. I think there's also a black Clark Kent Superman on Earth 2 (briefly). So "always" is wrong.

    And it makes you wonder... what would a black Kal-El still raised in Smallville by the Kents be like grown up? Would he still fight for truth, justice, and especially the American way? Or would some of that have been terrorized or beaten out of him as a child? Calvin Ellis specifically fights bullies. Would black Clark Kent raised in Kansas be similar?
  19. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending 14th Level Human Cleric

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    There's also a Russian Superman, but of course he's still white.
  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    I can remember back when the Soviet Union was falling apart a friend of mine telling me he was watching news showing things happening in the Soviet Union and being shocked that they were white. He literally thought, until that moment, they had red skin.
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  21. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I would argue that you can't without changing his backstory.

    Cap was an all American hero, and at the time he was given his super strength the US was still heavily segregated and the military/government wouldn't have used a black man.

    Someone else taking up his shield? Totally could be any race, as well as if you changed his backstory.
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  22. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    in that same x-verse was "whiz kid", who was Japanese and in a wheelchair around the time of Inferno.
    but yeah, kinda forgettable. Forge, at least, was a significant player for a good part of the 90s.
  23. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    there's Isaiah Bradley...
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  24. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Interesting character!
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  25. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    I was partially trolling due to the crybaby histronic over a biracial (as in "as black as Meghan Markle") chick who was cast as Mary Jane Watson in a recent Spiderman reboot and the howls of SHE DOESN'T HAVE RED HAIR! HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN?!?! that happened a few years ago. It was so ridiculous, I nearly scrambled my password to this fucking place. :brood:

    But I largely agree with the rest of the post.
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  26. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Oh yeah, was in the brief X-Terminators mini series that was a side story of Inferno, wasn't it?
  27. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    yeah... I wound up reading Red White and Black last night. Only wish was that it was a bit longer to fill in more of the details.
  28. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  29. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Point of order: That Harvey Dent was played by Billy Dee Williams, one of the coolest mofos on the planet at the time. Have Jaleel "Steve Urkel" White play Harvey Dent, and people are going to bitch, no matter how "cut" he might be today. Have Samuel L. Jackson play him, and ain't nobody gonna say nothin' lest they get their ass beat. :bailey:
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  30. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending 14th Level Human Cleric

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    I don't remember any kind of uproar when Samuel L. Jackson was tapped to play the previously white Nick Fury. :shrug: I think @The Night Funky has a point here.
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