That is nice coming from yet another overrated WF personality that can't hold his own in a discussion. I think there is space between forbin and faceman.
I agree it was a terrible move in many ways to pull out, especially from an humanitarian point of view. That being said the mission on Afghanistan was explicitly to get OBL because the Taliban were harbouring him. For better or for worse that does indeed make the assertion those troops were there "to help" questionable at best. This was never about humanitarian goals, it was about self interest, crushing an enemy and the political capital which goes with presenting a POTUS as strong enough to protect against terrorism. If it had been about causing as little harm as possible there'd never have been an attack on Afghanistan. If it had been about nation building there would have been no withdrawal. I'll accept it is wrong to call the occupation colonisation but absolutely the goal was imposition of "our" values on a population whose societies and internal politics we've never understood. You could argue that is justified where the alternative is barbarism, but democracies tend to fall short where it comes to long term strategy. Our politics are based around four year terms and re election, whereas the Taliban could always play a long game. The end result is we've made matters worse, which is exactly what always happens
It’s amazing how many Taliban fighters have proper trigger and barrel discipline (meaning Coalition trained) in the pics coming out of Afghanistan.
Is it just me or could that be a hoss and his friend going out for a fishing/camping/hunting trip here in the states? Except for the turret on top of the truck. I am sure now that it is out there the bubbas are going to have to have one. Oh, and my paintball guys overhaul of a jeep was far more bad ass than that ford. Shit, we could fit a 6 man team in that shit and have have exited and started effective combat within 10 seconds.
Forgive my self confesses ignorance but why would one follow from the other? Surely there are people capable of using and teaching good technique other than coalition troops?
Sorry, it's a Brit joke. Marks and Spencers is a well known retail outlet over here which has become the butt of jokes about it's name.
I’ve helped train both Iraqis and Afghans. Trigger and barrel discipline aren’t something they come in with. Also, if you look at most fighters/soldiers from non developed nations they don’t carry their weapons correctly or have proper trigger discipline. https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/news/somalia-security-forces-kill-25-al-shabaab-fighters-3518112 See the pic in this article from yesterday.
Other people could, but given it's Afghanistan, it's almost certainly the result of training with coalition forces.
What else was it about? Why did NATO and a bunch of other countries agree to help in Afghanistan, especially the ones that refused to join in the invasion of Iraq? Nearly everyone here keeps describing Afghanistan as an American war fought completely by Americans based only on American motivations, but that wasn't the case.
For a good chunk of the early days in Afghanistan, the US didn't want the other coalition forces operating outside Kabul, not that they really wanted to do much anyway: https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War And many countries saw Afghanistan as a legitimate conflict because the Taliban were hiding Bin Laden. Iraq was, from the start, a blatantly obvious war ginned up by the PNAC crowd on dubious evidence.
Duh, that is why I was saying the date was on. At least that was more interesting than the rest of this schlock. To think the US military is the purveyor of morality in the world did give me a good chuckle. I guess if Donald Trump is a good christian that can be true also. Then out of the blue comes Haiti!. I am really not sure whether the drugs are helping or hurting my understanding of the crazy at this point, but I do have to remember I am the immoral one because I do not want to inflict the US military on other people of the world.
Not really my usual impulse to defend the military or my government, but that sounds like a typical tabloidish misrepresentation. Unless they specifically organized a "get out our beer" rescue flight after the Taliban overran Kabul, there's really not much to see here. I'm pretty sure they shipped back the beer as part of their regular leaving the country, same as they probably have shipped back tents, tanks, guns, kitchen knifes, pots and pans and canned Sauerkraut. Germany does have rescue flights to get people out of Afghanistan now (and a special forces unit with helicopters to get them to the airport from other parts of Kabul)... just like, I assume, all the other ISAF countries do. It's of course too little too late, but that's a whole different question.
My Grandad taught me trigger discipline. He said if my finger ever touched the trigger when I wasn't aiming down range, my pee-pee would fall off. Of course I know NOW that my pee-pee won't fall off, but I was five at the time, so I took it seriously.
People are motivated by all sorts of things. An incomplete list of why the various people and powers involved in Afghanistan may have acted at different times over the last 20 years would include the following: Revenge for 9/11. Prevention of terrorism. Perpetuating the gravy train for the military-industrial complex. Control of strategic resources. Obtaining diplomatic or political kudos with allies. Concern for human rights. Maintaining "credibility" with other adversaries. You'll notice that some of these motivations are at odds with each other, since like I said above the world is complicated. Trying to reduce this complexity to comic-book stuff about "fighting evil", even if it makes you feel better on a personal level, is beneath you.
