CRT tangent from political meme thread and Cis tangent from Musk thread

The thing is, for anyone who's being honest about the definition of the term, saying Critical Race Theory shouldn't be taught in K-12 schools is like saying Quantum Theory or Advanced Particle Physics shouldn't be taught in K-12 schools.

It doesn't need to be said, because nobody is going to put advanced classes from postgraduate programs into a K-12 curriculum. K-12 students are not doing in-depth analyses of the legal code.

We all know that when a Republican says "Critical Race Theory," what they really mean is "facts about race in America that hurt my feelings," and Beto is giving credence to their bogus talking points.

Good marketing.

Here are some unhappy customers.

http://manyhoops.com/wampanoag-on-thanksgiving.html

Yes, it didn't work well for them. However, that's not the same thing as to say it didn't happen - which it did.

Primary source material from 1621 that literally describes the event.

But to the domgatists on WF, history only matters if it matches their ideology.

Amaris' statement was factually wrong. Period.

So says the primary source material - and oh yeah, your source as well.

"The way that I try to explain Thanksgiving to teachers is that there are many thanksgivings, it is not just that one day. As for the first Thanksgiving, it wasn't necessarily that they (the Pilgrims) invited our ancestors to eat. It just happened that it was a time when the leader of our people was coming into their (the Pilgrim) village on business. So they invited the men to stay and partake in the feast.
-- Tobias Vanderhoop
Aquinnah Wampanoag

Yes.

Clearly for some people it does indeed need to be repeated. Which O'Rourke did indeed do.

Really? So what was he supposed to say? That we should teach CRT, even though no one is actually calling for that?

Word for word: "We don’t see CRT being taught in our schools right now. It is a course that is taught in law schools. No, I don't want to see CRT taught in schools."

Later: "I don't want people to distract us or divide us on issues. Like, they aren't teaching CRT in grade schools right now. They may be teaching it in law school, where it is appropriate. But they are trying to scare us about it, nonetheless. I don't know why. But if we do get scared, we aren't focused on reading retention, or the fact that 7 out of 10 4th graders aren't reading at grade level in the average Texas class room right now (pause for applause). Let us focus on that. Let's focus on those great teachers. Let's focus on the kids, their education, their mental health care. These are the big things I want to get back to."

4:20 on is his answer.



When in doubt, check the source material.

And isn't it oh so interesting that the Far Left and Fox News have the same talking points on this? LOL.

This is a prime example of why CRT needs to be taught, along with critical thinking skills.

Easy reading:
https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/the-wampanoag-side-of-the-first-thanksgiving-story
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blog...-indian-thanksgiving-story-deserves-be-known/

"aMaRiS' sTaTeMeNt WaS fAcTuAlLy WrOnG. pErIoD."

Kids don't get taught what I posted, you tedious fuck. Goddamn, actually stand for something rather than bending in the wind to please the middle.

Nothing he said in the expanded video negates what I posted. The first 5 minutes are about guns. The last minute is about CRT. The seconds after the video I posted cut off, he doesn't expand on it except to say he believes we're being divided. The fact that his response to the question of whether or not CRT should be taught in schools was "no" isn't even considered, because you believe what you think he intends, rather than what he said. It's what a lot of people do, including Republicans. It's what people would say when Trump would say something fuck all stupid. "Well, he intended to say this," and like when Biden says shit like if you don't vote for him, you ain't black, or when he says poor kids are just as smart as white kids. There will always be a reason why the words that were said weren't "really" the words being meant, and you get to be comfortable another day.

Republicans and "moderate" Democrats are very close to one another ideologically, despite what they say about each other. You'd side with a Nazi before you'd side with a communist, because you're grossly ignorant about history, and only know the small snippets you were taught, and you are comfortable with that. You'll never have to step outside of it.

So yeah, give your reasons why Beto wasn't really saying what he said, or he meant it another way. You're just one more Trumper telling someone that their eyes and ears were wrong.

If CRT were put into practice, the Republican and Democrat party would quickly be found wanting, because their histories are replete with white supremacy that still exists, and is still used to protect those institutions.

Go find a Fox News panel that agrees with that, you vapid spineless fuck.

context.

It's kinda like if nazis celebrated thanksgiving by preparing pork matzah balls while their kids dress up as gypsies wearing skull caps.

Yeah, it did. But I get the fact that your dogma prevents you from dealing with objective reality.

He said twice that CRT isn't taught except in law school, and that he agrees that shouldn't be taught in grade school. He said it was a scare tactic to divide us, and that we should ignore it to focus on educating children and ensuring their mental health.

Do the words bend and move around in your mind? Are you unable to grasp them? Perhaps the core of your problem is a learning disability.

He said that CRT isn't being taught now, it's only taught in law school, and that he agrees that it shouldn't be taught in grade school.

Again, this is very obvious as to his meaning. He couldn't be more obvious. He explained his position precisely.

The fact you can't accept that is your issue.

I guarantee you I'm more conversant in history than you are. I know both the good and the bad. It's the only way history should be taught. You only look at the bad here, and don't understand how pervasive these same national flaws were in almost every other nation on Earth. The majority of the nations on Earth have been racist. The majority of the nations on Earth fought wars of aggression. The majority of nations on the Earth have exploited others. The US isn't uniquely evil. Even a mild understanding of world history and geopolitics should show that fact.

Your silo doesn't want you to understand that. America isn't the best nation on Earth, though it has done some wondrous things. It's not the worst nation on Earth, though it has committed grievous crimes.

As to communism vs nazi ideology, they are both abhorrent, both of them are failed authoritarian systems that are innately dehumanizing, and I earnestly oppose both. There has never been a communist nation on Earth that didn't devolve into authoritarianism. Anarcho-syndicalism is the most well meaning of that sad lineage, but ultimately is irrelevent, because no anarchistic system can organize to defend itself. Those principles have always led to still born polities that are always defeated quickly by more organized societies, be they authoritarian socialists or classical liberal democracies.

Democratic socialism has been proven to work, and to mitigate the worst extremities of free market capitalism. But sure, people who want Norway are just the same as Republicans.

Your eyes and ears are fine. It's your mind that's fucked up. He absolutely stated the truth about CRT. It's pathetic and quite frankly troubling that even when shown that you can't accept it.

But then, this is how you always have been. You were a mindless right wing ideologue. And then when your personal situation changed, you turned into a mindless left wing ideologue.

80-90% of black people vote Democrat. You must have an exceptionally low opinion of them if you think they are voting for white supremacists.

Hell, Democrats are beginning to lose Hispanic voters. Turns out they don't care for woke politics.

The worst thing about you guys? We could have a better system. But you make sure there are always people voting for the GOP.

We are going to see abortion rights outlawed, are already seeing massive gerrymandering and voter suppression, next up on the agenda is outlawing birth control in some states. Minority political power will be suppressed, women's rights shattered, and you can bet your ass they will be coming for the LGBTQ community. If Trump wins, it's hard to imagine democracy itself becoming anything than a hollow shell.

Beto has a real chance in TX. He might be able to make substantive change there, at the very least mitigate the harm of people like Abbot. No far left candidate has any chance in TX. Maybe some day, but clearly not now, as all the polling and common sense alike shows.

You'd rather see him lose.

Don't compare me to the GOP. I don't do their work for them.

Assholes like you do.

Yeah, Manifest Destiny wasn't the Holocaust, though it certainly inspired Lebensraum.

MD wasn't even coined as a term until 1845. Historians have noted that the native american population in 1491, the year before Columbus, was ~150 million in North America. 200 years later, in 1691, it was down to 10-15 million. By that time the English colonies hadn't spread much further than 200 miles from the Atlantic coast, with a population of only 250,000 combined.

There of course was warfare and massacres of civilians, and they tended to escalate against each other. The superior technology of the English settlers gave them significant advantages.

In contrast, what is now Latin America, Mexico and the Carribean had been completely conquered. That is where the majority of indigenous people resided. The economidos system of the Conquestidores could be considered equivalent to the Nazi death camps, with nearly a third of the population in their forced labor colonies dying every six months. Tens of millions were wiped out.

By the time Western expansion in the newly founded American society started, native American population had been stricken with wave after wave of pandemics. Each made the tribal units more vulnerable than the last. And yes, dislocation certainly increased the mortality rate.

But it wasn't a centrally organized death factory like the Holocaust. Hitler's Armies killed 20 million, his death camps another 12 million, in just 5 years.

The two worst episodes in American history are the trail of tears, where ~15,000 died, and the genocide in California during the Gold Rush, also killing near 15,000.

Yes, those are horrible crimes and history needs to teach them that way. There were numerous massacres, and of course the intent was to take the land.

But no, they aren't the same thing as the ovens raining ash down on the camps 24/7.

The scope and scale and intense compression of the Holocaust dwarfs any other action, and we should be cognizant of that.

150 million pre-columbus and 6.8 million today...

Their population would have increased if not for european invasion.

the scope and scale astonishes me. Let's give thanks.

The majority of which had nothing to do with me or my ancestors. Hell, the colony of Pennsylvania had only existed for 10 years by the end of that period. Philadelphia was a small town, population less than a thousand.

When I sit down to eat my entirely secular Thanksgiving I'm thankful for my family, our health, and our accomplishments.

And yes, that health is in large part due to the medical science that people of this nation have been able to create, and the agricultural sciences that have spread throughout the world. Norman Borlaug by himself saved more people than ever existed in the Americas through freely giving his agricultural science to nations like India and China, allowing them to avoid the starvation cycles that plagued them for their history.

Hell, for that matter the first real holiday in America for Thanksgiving was to be thankful the American civil war was over.

Then why did you bring up the puritan pamphlet from 1621 as somehow remarkable and factual?! I rarely refer to religious tracts for accurate history.

Because it is both remarkable and factual. It's relatively rare to have such definitive primary source material from such an early date in the colonies. The claim was that the natives and pilgrims never 'helped' each other. They went hunting together and sat down for a multi-day feast together. So says both the writers who were there and the descendants of that tribe.

Do I care about that aspect of the Thanksgiving tradition? Not particularly. I do care that someone claimed it was a lie.

You know, truth matters. Without that, all you have is uninformed opinion.

And what I find over and over again is that people substitute dogma for truth - especially those on the extremes of political thought.

it's a highly fanciful piece of writing, as discussed by experts that Ameris posted.

Your version of events is dogmatic.

Demiurge: "Amaris is blinded by dogma!"
Also Demiurge: "This religious pamphlet will explain what really happened."

It's not worth even trying, at least not online. Again, CRT would be beneficial just for this kind of situation if, for nothing else, to break the idea that there is one overarching narrative that gently puts both sides in a good light. Sometimes, it's just brutality and suffering, and it's done by the people who now benefit from it.

It's not a religious pamphlet. It's a journal. Specifically a journal of their first interactions with indigenous peoples. You did read it, didn't you? Of course not. You at least looked at the summary? Of course not. That might penetrate the dogma.

So you can't duck this any further:
https://www.worldhistory.org/Mourt's_Relation/

Mourt's Relation (published 1622 CE) is an account of the first year of the Plymouth Colony founded by the pilgrims who arrived in Massachusetts in November 1620 CE aboard the Mayflower. Its original title was A Relation or Journal of the Beginning and Proceedings of the English Plantation Settled at Plimoth in New England, shortened to Mourt's Relation after the name of the publisher, George Morton (also given as George Mourt, l. c. 1585-1624 CE), a member of the congregation of separatists who made up half the passengers aboard the Mayflower. It was written by two of the leading colonists, William Bradford (l. 1590-1657 CE) and Edward Winslow (l. 1595-1655 CE), both of whom would serve as governors of the colony multiple times.

The work is a journal of the pilgrims' voyage, landing, and the development of the colony from 6 September 1620 CE, when the Mayflower left from Plymouth, England, to 11 December 1621 CE, after the settlement was firmly established. It contains the first accounts of the signing of the Mayflower Compact, the First Encounter with Native Americans, the first winter during which 50% of the passengers and crew died, and the colony's salvation through the intervention of the Native Americans Samoset (l. c. 1590-1653 CE), Squanto (l. c. 1585-1622 CE) and the chief of the Wampanoag Confederacy, Massasoit (l. c. 1581-1661 CE) as well as the account of the First Thanksgiving.

So yeah, like usual, you are wrong, and it's not an opinion.

Yes, if only we looked at this through the lens of my specific dogma, all would be revealed! LOL.

Some indigenous people did interact peacefully and positively with the first settlers in Plymouth. That's objective fact.

That doesn't mean that all relations with native Americans were positive after that, and that is certainly not the way it is portrayed in the American education system. Quite the opposite, actually.

Lindsay McVay, Ameris' 'expert' from the Smithsonian. From her source:

The Pilgrims already believed they were part of God’s plan. Finding empty villages as 90 percent—yes, 90 percent—of America’s Indians perished in front of them only furthered Europeans’ sense of their destiny, influencing them to continue the colonization westward. As Jolene Rickard (Tuscarora) and Paul Chaat Smith (Comanche) wrote in Our Peoples: Giving Voice to Our Histories, one of the opening exhibitions at the National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, “That initial explosion of death is one of the greatest tragedies in human history because it was unintended, and unavoidable, and even inevitable. But what happened in its wake was not.”

One people who famously suffered from the onslaught of disease were the Wampanoag, a nation made up of 69 villages scattered throughout present-day Rhode Island and Massachusetts. Skilled hunters, gatherers, farmers, and fishers during spring and summer, the Wampanoag moved inland to more protected shelter during the colder months of the year. Like indigenous groups everywhere, the Wampanoag had a reciprocal relationship with nature and believed that as long as they gave thanks to the bountiful world, it would give back to them. Long before the arrival of the Pilgrims, the Wampanoag held frequent Thanksgiving-like celebrations, giving thanks in the form of feasts and ceremonial games.

Exposed to new diseases, the Wampanoag lost entire villages. Only a fraction of their nation survived. By the time the Pilgrim ships landed in 1620, the remaining Wampanoag were struggling to fend off the Narragansett, a nearby Native people who were less affected by the plague and now drastically outnumbered them.

For a moment of history, the interests of the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag aligned. When the Pilgrims landed in New England, after failing to make their way to the milder mouth of the Hudson, they had little food and no knowledge of the new land. The Wampanoag suggested a mutually beneficial relationship, in which the Pilgrims would exchange European weaponry for Wampanoag for food. With the help of an English-speaking Patuxet Indian named Tisquantum (not Squanto; he spoke English because he was kidnapped and sold in the European slave trade before making his way back to America), the Pilgrims produced a bountiful supply of food that summer. For their part, the Wampanoag were able to defend themselves against the Narragansett. The feast of indigenous foods that took place in October 1621, after the harvest, was one of thanks, but it more notably symbolized the rare, peaceful coexistence of the two groups.

Sounds familiar. Oh, right, exactly what I've stated the entire time.

But then, you probably shouldn't take Lindsay McVay, the 'expert' in question, word for it.

See, Lindsey doesn't have a history degree. As a matter of fact, it states specifically she had no degree at all when she wrote this piece. It says that in the article. You did READ THE ARTICLE, right? No?

It's a blog post, and she was the intern. She worked at the National Museum of the American Indian for 4 months. When she got her degree next year it was in Writing and Rhetoric, with a minor in Gender Studies.

While I'm sure she's a very nice young woman and no doubt means well, no one should ever confuse her with an actual historian.

Here's her CV. She's looking for a job. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...e645ed555fe76/1526491882256/lindsay mcvay.pdf

Primary source material. Fact check. Research skills. Critical thinking.

I found out recently that my wife is a Mayflower descendent. I learned there are over 35 million of them!

I'm glad you find solace in solemnizing a ceremony co-opted from a dead and displaced people.

those were prolific puritans!

And I'm sorry your dogmatism doesn't allow you to understand that Thanksgiving for millions of Americans isn't about celebrating the genocide of indigenous people. I don't carve the first slice of Turkey then say 'Fuck Them Natives.'

I appreciate a meal with my family, am thankful for their continued health and well being, then like any normal American go watch the Detroit Lions lose to the Dallas Cowboys.

Which also triggers you.

Which I find hysterical.

Detroit and Dallas both host home games on Thanksgiving, so they each lose to different teams.

I stand corrected. LOL.

shouldn't you be drilling someone?

What makes you think that wasn't exactly what I was just doing?

But fine, mean man that knows things will move on.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled CRT butthurt.

I have to once again wonder what the fuck schools you people attended, that any of this could be new information.

I went to public schools in poor neighborhoods.

How can the butt hurt resume if you're going?

Fine, Dicky, I'll stay, just for you.

And you had textbooks that you actually read?