CRT tangent from political meme thread and Cis tangent from Musk thread

I dunno, you say a lot more shit that Nazis say than @Demiurge does

Fascinating. Show me that post, please.

Here you go: http://wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3399122/

This in my response to your comment directed to me:

The interchange is in the next few posts, ending with MOAHS here:

This would be after you posted a far right white supremacist saying that Beto O'Rourke was against CRT, you said that exemplified White Supremacy, and following that up with saying that the native americans didn't help the colonists at Plymouth, by selectively editing a 'expert' who actually said that native americans did help the colonists at Plymouth.

And along the way 'America is evil' and we should all be more like China - who still requires an entire family to sign off on transitioning from male to female and still lists transgenderism as a mental disorder.

Because objective reality is just how you feel about something, right Amaris?

What the fuck are you on about?

When a concept exists, it is useful to have a word to describe it.

The concept of a person whose assigned sex matches their gender identity is something that exists. The word that we use to describe it is "cisgender." The word is relatively new in common circulation because until recently, much of society refused to admit that any other state of being was possible.

I don't describe myself as cisgender 99% of the time, unless it's relevant to the conversation, but I am. Similarly, I don't describe myself as heterosexual, or even as a man, because doing so is unnecessary for me in most situations. I probably describe myself as a Trekkie more often than I describe myself as anything identity-related. I definitely describe myself using my occupation more than pretty much anything else.

Nonetheless, I am those things, and because I don't go through life with a massive chip on my shoulder the way you seem to, I'm not offended by the fact that words for those things exist.

I am finally getting it about you. You are angry at me for being born with a penis since you are not a cis male. It is OK, you are a trans man. The jealousy is a part of being born trans. You should have just told us you are a trans male and do not want to be called a cis male. It takes all types, and I apologize for assuming you were born assigned male at birth. I should have listened to your words, and yes you can be a man even though you are not a cis man.

I should have just accepted your claims to not be a cis male as honest and not demanded you be classified as such understanding the harm that wrongly insisting you were not cis male.

I just did not understand the pain and hurt involved with being accused cis when one is not actually cis. It is a bit different and I am learning.

Thank you for the link. I merged all the Cis talk from the Musk thread with this one.

So for anyone interested:

Who made the conclusions that @Demiurge claimed I made? Because you can see I said no such thing.

How did I respond? A few posts later:

What a fascinating look into what was actually said and by whom, and what a grossly misrepresentative statement by someone who said the things they claimed I said, and then thought it was proof that I said them.

Bad faith? Thy name is @Demiurge.

I learn new things every day. I did not know there were people born trans who are angry about passing as cis people. Oddly this problem had never occurred to me, but I recognize you were born with a vagina and are harmed by my claims that you were a cis male. You just needed to use your words.

We thought that you were a man born assigned male at birth and therefor respected that by referring to you as a cis male, which means a person who identifies with male and was born with male genitals. Since you obviously identify as male it was wrong for us to assume you were not cis and insist you were. I will not just assume you, UA, and Tons of lube were born cis male anymore. You just had to tell us you didn't have a penis. Nothing wrong with any of that.

Thought they'd miss this, huh?

You're really reaching for a gotcha for some reason. Sorry, slightly less racist @Dinner, I have no interest in your bad faith bigotry disguised as just having some questions.

Amaris, did you or did you not claim that I decided you were 'no longer worthy of being identified as who I was'? What would you call that if not misgendering?

Remember, you quoted the passage were you said that, and I pointed it out, and it's right there for everyone to read it.

But you still say I'm the one acting in bad faith?

Himmler would be proud.

Wow. Thanks, Glenn Beck.

You haven't made your case, but I might be biased.

I have found great anger in the trans community from discussing the difference between trans and cis because it hurts trans people to have the difference. Most trans people want to be considered the gender they present as, or cis. The goal of many trans people on the SRS path is not to be trans anything.

I have been banned from trans groups for just suggesting there is a difference between growing up male or female that cannot be changed by simply changing genders. Just making that suggestion that they are not male or female, and that cis and transd are important, sends some trans people into a fit of rage about cis prefixes fitting them.

I have admittedly offended in that way. I am not sure why a cis person would be offended by their gender matching their assigned at birth gender. I have never seen a cis person having legitimate offense to being referred to as cis. The offense is always to the existence of trans people and not their gender matching their birth gender.

Since everyone is honest about par2ticipating in this for legitimate reasons and they are not transphobes here top outcast trans people and insult them I am quite sure the only other reason to be offended is they desire to be cis and the discussion of trans people not being cis is offending them. The only reason I could find is the same reason trans people who are trying to deny their trans nature di not like mention of cis as not who they are.

I've been noticing a lot of emails and Zoom meetings where people are adding their pronouns

Could you be a bit more specific regarding "modern" and "west"? Like, I'd be with you if we're talking 1850-2000ish, and in the English speaking world. But I think outside of that, mileage would vary either by extending to say, the end of the Tudor era or much of continental Europe.

As for "cis"... yeah, it really doesn't come up much, and I think grammatically it's unnecessary (like tuna-fish). It's like a clinical term that became relevant to the common conversation... Might as well ask if the carpet matches the drapes for all it matters to me to be "identified" as such.

Remember when Dumiurge claimed he was an ally going to help out trans people?

I would love to bring him to gay biker weak with the bears and have this conversation with a few bears in the woods. I know just the right clearing.

OK, Steve, you tell me. What do you think Amaris meant when she said 'Demiurge immediately decided I was no longer worthy of being identified as who I was.'

What do you think I meant when in that same exchange I stated:

Dunno, would you care to link the entire conversation?

Your excerpts are offensive.

It's the one that starts 'Here you go" in response to Amaris telling me to show her that post. You know, the one that ShootER thanked me for posting and then merged the thread to the one where those comments occurred in. Like 8 posts up? I mean, you did read it before saying I haven't proven my case, right? Oy.

But nah, don't bother.

Yeah, you are biased.

This sure did take a trip from "cis is a slur" to @Demiurge getting angry at me, accusing me of shit, and then calling everyone biased for asking questions. I should have had a V8 before we left.

I have a feeling it will become more important as the millenials will need it a bit more. In the boomer day it was not important because you didn't admit to being trans or gay due to the problems it brought with it. If you were passing you did not out yourself. The only reason to identify as non-cis was in private with family and romantic involvement. The only reason to talk about trans people in cis areas was to insult their gender expression. She must be a man in a dress because she isn't feminine. Men calling each other ladies as an insult or dominance outside the gay community.

It has become more necessary in the past few decades because people discuss these issues in a less insulting way trying to respect others. If I were to introduce you to my gay friends I would tell them you were cishet so they know to behave. I am sure you can defend yourself and politely refuse any advancements, but when company mixes it is often good to let people know, especially if drinking and drugs get involved. It is a lot of the same reasons people wear a wedding ring. The more company is mixed, the more it becomes important to identify.

This is not to mention identify the bigots. like there are racist dogwhistles like the confederate flag, there is also the dog whistle that lets us know not to trust a person like @Demiurge when he lies about supporting the trans community while he promotes hating on trans swimmers. Some people may be polite and not call him out to his face, I know the gays are talking behind his back about him being a fucking creep if he is talking like this in their presence. I know plenty of parties where you would be quickly uninvited had you brought him twice.

So, just to be clear, you think that me saying 'Cis isn't innately a slur' but saying 'cis can be a slur depending on intent' is the same thing as stating 'cis is a slur.' OK. And a guy suggesting he's biased that didn't bother to read the thread while stating he thought I hadn't proved my case is the same thing as saying everyone is biased. Gotcha.

And hey, why would someone get annoyed by being called a Nazi, a fucking TERF, and having multiple offensive sexual comments sent their way for stating that they had a preference on how they liked to be addressed. How horrible.

Again, for anyone that bothered to actually read the thread, you are just showing the truth of my words.

8 posts up you posted a link to the point in this thread over a year ago.

Looking back at that, no, you don't have a case.

You seem to be frothing at the mouth for not wanting to address someone as they wish with respect to gender. And no, criminals don't deserve the same respect.

MAOHS had your back, but other than that I don't see anything in your favor.

Maybe try being civil.

But yeah, I'm biased.

Oh yeah, they've been encouraging us to add our pronouns to our email signatures and such for a while now. The reasoning we were provided was that if everyone does it, then it seems like a much smaller deal when a they/them or otherwise does it. I added mine, since it costs zero dollars to be kind.

(There's also a crosswalk outside my office where everyone jaywalks constantly... unless there's a little kid present, at which point we all wait for the light to change because "it takes a village" is a real thing.)

Yes, when I said 'we already had this conversation' and I was asked to provide the source. You know, a year ago.

OK, Steve. Thanks for chiming in. LOL.

Have some nitrous and chill.

You know what's really interesting?

I quoted this response, but it was only the first sentence.

Now there's quite a bit more.

Yet the original post doesn't say it was edited.

That's really strange.

It's almost like an administrator can act in bad faith to alter the rules.

Ok, you win. We won't call you cismale.

How about simply not calling me a Nazi, a fucking terf, saying I can finger my own butthole across time and space, calling me fragile, saying I'm having a breakdown because someone called me cis, comparing my conversation to masturbation, and being honest when you as an administrator edit posts all over the place during a discussion. And quite a few other insults.

That seems 'civil', don't you think?

I edited it to add more. Any administrator or moderator can see the editing history.
Right now you seem to be "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" mode.

I think @steve2^4's right, you need to fucking chill.