Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

In all honesty, I would have to agree with you here. If I have referred to you in particular as a Nazi it was reactionary in the middle of emotion, and I will apologize for that. I react explosively, and when I am wrong I admit it. You obviously maintasin the site and allow for the open discussion of some emotional topics, and that is not Nazi like. I have come to respect WF for such things, and apologize for any implication that you threaten people's ability to express themselves when disagreeing with their opinion.

My problem with Isreal is I do not want their existence stained with the blood of the innocent any more than it has been. From a philisophical and spiritual religious standpoint I see the value in there existing the Isreali state.

I do not know what discussion has gone on behind the scenes or past problems that has occurred, and I am going to go down the road of saying this is a huge flare up that all of us need to calm down from. The desire to change the way things are going is better directed elsewhere, and this is venting here.

True, I am venting, and I do tend to get very emotional about things like this.

@Dr. Krieg, I apologize for calling you a Nazi. That was harsh, and uncalled for. We clearly have strongly differing positions, but it doesn't warrant calling you something that isn't so.

We have to remember it is the escalation of emotional reactions that leads down that slippery slope to the collapse of the social contract and killing and assaults. This is why oppose the idea of having to punch a nazi just for saying nazi shit.

The horrible part of having restraint on earth is the reality that humans have come from some very violent and unfair evolution which has favored bloodshed and tribalistic war. We have to recognize we weren't placed upon this planet by a magical god as the human race we are now. We are the evolving society of holy shit immoral rape, war, and murder of the animal kingdom. We can fall back down into that because we have never had that removed from our nature by god. It is within us, and therefor we need to fight that nature in our society and recognize the presence of those realities. There was never a peaceful garden of eden that we fucked up with our savagery. We are working towards a less savage existence.

Not for the first time, I invite you to read my post.

We can talk about those things but I have not suggested that brutalisation is the only driver of history. My comment on that related to the present moment and the reason one finds political 'extremism' in Gaza. The broader point (which will be obvious to everyone who isn't a racist) is that all societies are a product of their history rather than of the innate wickedness or righteousness of their inhabitants.

TERF is no insult. I'm a true feminist (old school) and that rather conflicts at times with the other.

I don't hate Muslims. I dislike RADICAL Muslims. Ditto for RADICAL (insert any religion). Extremists suck. There is a huge number of Muslims all over the world. Many are peace loving, decent people who only want to live their lives and mean no harm to anyone. That would, of course, be the majority of them, you know? You can't group an entire people.

Israel is certainly not perfect. I understand their rationale, but their execution of such leaves much to be desired. When the war finally does end, Netanyahu is toast.

But I waste no tears for the fanatics, of any stripe. I just wish them gone...to the cornfield a la "It's a Good Life."

Fair enough, but Iran would still cause a lot of trouble in the region if left unchecked. My overall point is, a Middle East left to its own devices will be an awful, war-torn place. I don't think it would be a unified Caliphate anytime soon--Sunni or Shia.

I am a person who agrees with a bunch of TERF things, including Trans women are not women and cannot take their place. They are a reflection that has values in their perception, but we cannot and should not be replacing women. We need to work to support women and let women lead the way. If we want to be able to understand and live the female experience, we need to have cis women lead that experience and not run them over or overtake them. I will point out to any tranny that it would be a very masculine thing to do manstep on feminism as trans women. We have to listen and absorb because we do not experience the full womanhood thing.

All I want to say to the TERFs is please know that not being a woman is the sore spot of trans women. Some desire the most of that experience as they can get, and the place that hurts us is where we cannot do that, so please be aware and compassionate and empathetic when dealing with that hurt person. That is one of the greatest parts of femininity is compassion and understanding. Men, not so much.

My call for the cessation of hostilities is for both sides to stop and be able to grow and advance. Isreal is doing some horrors. I was also horrified by the attacks on Isreal that started all of this. Isreal cannot have that insecurity and you cannot let terrorists develop weapons that you know they will strike with. I get that the people of palestine side with tghe anti-jewish hate due to where they are.

I do not like the US being the country that forces the other people to hold their punches because that is what would save the palestinians. If the other countries felt free to attack Isreal for the palestinian cause, Isreal would be more inclined to respect the lives of palestinians IMO. That is just the tribal way that area of the world works. Isreal is emboldened to steal land slowly because the US allows them to move like an amoeba taking land over slowly. Really you are just allowing more children to be born into hate by that method. They have no reason to stop killing those they have dehumanized. The Isrealis may look like us, but they are not like us in that way. They are genocidal as a mass. That does not mean you cannot find some who appreciate muslims, because there are some, that means you cannot allow them to continue that goal, just like you would have to stop Islam from cleansing Isreal from the planet. If ethnic cleansing is preferrable to genocide then there would be an argument for the reality that you are not killing off all the jews by killing all zionist Isrealis. That cannot be tolerated either. If Isreal were to be attacked like the muslim radicals want I would be up for assisting and helping them survive and hold their country.

I am not one of the people who say Isreal should not exist. I look at Isreal like disneyland. It has problems, but people feel great going there.

According to Israeli channel 12, the Israeli line of defense at the ICJ regarding the statements of Israeli officials about destroying Gaza, that were quoted in the appeal will be that: “Some of those quoted are not decision makers, the ones that are - didn’t mean what they said”



Link

They did the Narcissist's prayer meme, didn't they?

The Narcissist's Prayer

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... You deserved it.

What do you think the R in TERF stands for?

I accept your apology, and offer mine, as well. We can have differing opinions on stuff, and still be friends. Shit, if I can be friends with Beck, we can be cool, too.

I can't think it's a great place to be. It's why, other than really the sports thing, I do my best to go along with it all. It doesn't hurt me to do so, even if I don't really "get it."

It's a huge mess with no easy solution for either side, or else it would have been done already. It's the kind of thing that makes sensible decent people rip their hair out.

Just got a not-so-gentle reminder of why Israel/Gaza has risen to the top of my "don't talk about this on Facebook" list.
Utterly passionate arguments in defense of Israel's tactics and absolute conviction that if you dare to criticize them at all then you are clearly an evil antisemite.

Geez.

I mean, I wasn't even going hard on Netanyahu (which I could) and his government, just making the point that it IS possible to condemn their tactics and not be antisemitic or even anti-Zionist. I was very restrained about my views on the conduct of the war, just being pedantic about that.

And they absolutely lost their shit.
I've got enough on my plate to be terrified about without wading into THAT tar pit again.

Wael Al-Dahdouh is the Al Jazeera bureau chief in Gaza.

On 28th October, Wael Al-Dahdouh's family home was targeted by the IDF, killing his wife, seven-year old daughter, 15-year old son, grandson and 8 other relatives. He went back to work the next day.
On 15th December the IDF fired a missile at him and his cameraman. He was injured but his colleague bled to death as the IDF prevented medics from reaching him for many hours. He went back to work the next day.
On 7th January, his remaining son who is also a journalist was travelling in a car in a designated safezone. The IDF hit the car with a precision strike, killing him and two colleagues. Wael Al-Dahdouh is back working today.

Anthony Blinken, who supplied the weapons for all of this says: "I am a parent myself. I can’t begin to imagine the horror that he’s experienced not once, but twice. This is an unimaginable tragedy."

The IDF admitted the latest attack, saying: "An Israeli military aircraft identified and struck a terrorist operative who was operating an aircraft that posed a threat to troops. We are aware of reports that during the strike, two other suspects who were in the same vehicle as the terrorists were also hit."
The aircraft in question was a photographic drone and the man was a photographer.

The category of "terror journalists" is openly discussed in Israel, as it the practice of killing their families.

Wael Al-Dahdouh deserves every journalistic award in the world.

Yeah, this guy is getting press all over the world. I'll need to look into him before I declare him a journalistic hero, but damn, man. Take a day off. I've called out of work because I stubbed my fucking toe. You've earned a sick day.

Video of an Israeli sniper shooting dead a woman waving a white flag while holding the hand of a child.

Just another day in Gaza.

The Israeli-human rights group B'Tselem agrees that Israel is starving the people of Gaza.

Full report.

Anyone new want to take the chance to be against this yet?

Despite some fairly frantic diplomatic efforts and efforts at mitigating their reputation ahead of the ICJ genocide case opening tomorrow, Israeli officials are still using genocidal rhetoric.

"Gaza and its people must be burned. I have no pity for them."

So says Nissim Vatur, a deputy speaker of the Knesset and MP for Likud.

There comes a point where no hyperbole is needed. Simply quoting them is enough to get the point across that there are some seriously genocidal people in leadership positions that should have been removed a long time ago.

Likud, being the Israeli equivalent of the Republicans, is unquestionably full of terrible people.

However, there is also an extent to which having rockets lobbed at your city on a regular basis for decades has got to do things to a person's perspective. (Whereas our Republicans are mainly reacting to attacks they invented in their own fevered imaginations.)

That only works if you ignore previous history, though, like when the 9/11 attacks happened here in the US. It was "they hate us for our freedoms" rather than the truth, which was "we've been stealing their resources, bombing and assassinating their leaders, and killing their families for generations."

It's not like the Palestinians woke up one day and said "hey, you know what would be fun? Letting the UN and the UK establish an apartheid state in Palestine, and then attacking the Israeli occupation, you know, as a treat."

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers (terrorists) were from Saudi Arabia. When did the US steal Saudi resources, bomb and assassinate their leaders, and kill their families?

I absolutely agree. This is certainly one of a number of factors that feeds the current mania in Israel, where these views are typical and large majorities believe that attacks on Gaza aren't even going far enough.

But it by no means absolves the rest of us from the responsibility to stop them when they are acting on these beliefs.
Yesterday in separate incidents they attacked a hospital killing dozens and an ambulance killing several paramedics.

And on that front, Israel are up in the Hague today on charges of genocide.

Supporting South Africa's case against them:
Bolivia, Belgium, The Maldives, Venezuela and Namibia, Afghanistan, Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Benin, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Algeria, Djibouti, Chad, Indonesia, Morocco, Cote d’Ivoire, Palestine, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, Iraq, Iran, Cameroon, Qatar, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Comoros, Kuwait, Libya, Lebanon, Maldives, Malaysia, Mali, Egypt, Mauritania, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somali, Sudan, Surinam, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda, Oman, Jordan, Yemen, Brazil

Supporting Israels defense:
United States, United Kingdom, Germany

(I'm ashamed of the Irish government position, of course.)

My understanding of the case is that inside a short time (weeks?) it may pronounce on provisional measures - which could include instruction that Israel halt its campaign. There's no doubt that Israel would ignore such an order, but it will certainly face diplomatic and economic consequences should it do so - the EU have already said that it will respect any decisions made by the court.

Oh, and since much of the western media appears to want to brazen this out as usual (neither CNN or BBC are broadcasting events from the Hague), here's a link.

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0111/1425881-gaza-israel/

The opening statements from the South African lawyers were astonishing and everyone should watch them back if they can.

I hadn't been aware of this one:

So, is the genocide over yet? I'm sure South Africa has sorted everything out with the highly-effective UN court.

No?

Damn.

Isn't it a common refrain that peaceful means should be used to protest the injustices that are faced in the middle east?
It is revealing that your attitude is typical when that actually happens.

My attitude is that South Africa should get stuffed.

Peaceful means is absolutely the way to go, but you can't negotiate with Hamas.

"But Hamas!" is such weak fucking bullshit at this point. Do yourselves a favour and listen to the opening statements by the South African lawyers. This stuff is not remotely attributable to Hamas.

"The first genocide in history where its victims are broadcasting their own destruction in real time in the desperate so far vain hope that the world might do something." - Blinne Ni Ghralaigh.