Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

Last I heard the IDF accidentally shot some hostages because Hamas had been using fake cries for help to lure soldiers into ambushes, and they thought the hostages legitimate cries for help were another trap.

I have a lot of sympathy for IDF guys saying they made mistakes, because they're fighting an enemy that works overtime to trick them into making mistakes.

Yes, we understand that you think that no other nation is obligated to step up and that Western countries are required to give the Palestinians food for all time.

This specific strain wasn't introduced to Europe until 1844, and it was far more impactful than the previous cases. The fact that the Irish Lumper was specifically vulnerable to it and had been adopted throughout Ireland for it's ease of production and considerable food output collapsed Irish agriculture. Yes, the English were assholes too.

A lie. I said there was no way to determine who shot the man from that footage, and it was just as possible it was Hamas. I did not say it was for sure Hamas. You just felt I said that.

And what does the article say? The general in question does not admit it was the IDF, he says that his troops were nearby and they are investigating if it was them. ""That is not the way we carry out our rules of engagement. No, we don't fire at people waving white flags. We don't fire at civilians" is also among his quotes.

When was the last time you heard Hamas say 'We are checking to see if one of our people killed a civilian.'

They don't have to give a damn. We're on a message board, and that's exactly why, because they could openly advocate for the genocide of Palestinians and what's going to happen to them? They lose reputation? Pfft. Not a goddamn thing, so they have free license to be as awful and bloodthirsty as they want. Like most political posts here, it's entertainment, and clearly it's some kind of perverse fun to cause other people emotional distress. That's why this thread goes on despite seeing blatant genocide, on video, in real time, against an entire group of people taking place.

Take your meds.

Where did the idea that UNRWA source "free food" come from anyway? That's not their primary role. Right now they mainly distribute the food that others send. And there's plenty of food being sent to Gaza, sitting right at the border, where it's mostly being obstructed from entering.

You are literally complaining that donations from Western member countries are temporarily on pause because the West is concerned about UNRWA staff members actively participating in a massacre.

UNRWA relies on donations, nearly 90% of it from Western nations, to purchase the food and benefits that they pass on to Palestinians. By definition, they did not pay for this, otherwise they wouldn't require Western aid.

Hence, 'free food.'

If you don't pay for it, but you eat it... You see where I'm going with this. LOL.

I'm sorry, but who here is advocating for the genocide of palestinians? What should Israel have done, after Hamas murdered hundreds of people, including whole families? Nothing?

Feel free to answer the question, Ricky.

We have two prominent posters taking positions in favour of genocide. There are others including you who continually agree with their posts.

Of course, nobody is going to admit it openly. No genocide in history has worked that way. Denial is an intrinsic part of the process, as much as discrimination, dehumanisation and destruction of property.

As for "what else could Israel do?", you imply that this response and "nothing" are the only possible answers. That's obviously a preposterous false binary.

Nice deflection. Answer the question.

I answered it earlier in the thread.

http://www.wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3511442/

http://www.wordforge.net/index.php?posts/3511460/

No matter how many times you answer the question, it won't matter. It hasn't mattered after dozens of pages. Israel could literally murder every last Palestinian and the deflection to it would be "they have a right to defend themselves." Because Palestinians are, according to the Israeli government, animals, untermenschen, sons of Amalek, and less than human.

Look at how Americans reacted when 9/11 occurred. It was just the smallest taste of the massive destruction US foreign policy has committed against so many other nations, especially those in the Middle East, and yet it changed US policy going forward and is still changing it, because empires lash out uncontrollably and commit overkill when they are attacked in even the smallest proportion to what they have done. It's like killing a man and his family for his slapping you across the face because you threatened him with death. It doesn't matter that Israel has been killing Palestinians regularly since well before Hamas was formed. It doesn't matter that Israel has been occupying and stealing the land the Palestinians have lived on since well before Hamas existed, none of it matters. That Israel started it doesn't matter, because the US starts so much shit and then acts shocked SHOCKED when they get just the smallest drop of resistance.

A good way to see this in a bottle is to watch when protesters peacefully assemble, the cops show up and start beating them, even killing them, and the news then reports that another violent protest occurred. It is the same as it ever was for people in power. It must always be made to appear that the people in power have no choice but to attack swiftly and decisively. It's why I say the US is a fascist nation, because it is so militaristic that you can literally watch cops beating up people protesting for healthcare, for wages, for justice, and the news will tell you why it's necessary and good, actually.

The rules based order is a farce. There will always be a reason why the US has to kill 200,000 innocents who had nothing to do with what was going on except that they lived in the country being bombed to hell and back. Remember, the Nazis got many of their ideas from the United States. Israel, clearly, has done the same.

Anyone whose response of 13,000+ Palestinian children being murdered is that Israel has the right to defend themselves says so much more about what they think about Palestinians than they do actual justice.

To use a pop culture literary reference, the people of the Capitol do not understand that when the Districts it has enslaved and oppressed rise up and take back what is rightfully theirs, they're not going to be moved by pleas of "I didn't know," and "we were just defending ourselves."

Take your meds.

You're looking for what the definition of "is" is. It's like when conservatives claim they don't want to take away women's rights and then have all abortion clinics in a state shut down. Another example would be "when have we ever been racist towards black people?" while also talking about how you're not racist but "they're" lazy, on welfare, bad fathers, and taking our jobs. Few people who have any experience from being in a minority position are fooled by it. The people who are fooled are the comfortable ones who get their sound bites from sources that reinforce the systemic privilege they enjoy, through their own privileged experiences.

To put it one more way: If, after 20,000+ deaths, 13,000 of them children, you still use the term "defense" when describing Israel, then there is no line in the sand for you, nothing that wouldn't justify Israel's continued existence even if it means killing every last Palestinian. You don't have to say it for it to be so, because it's imprinted in what you don't say, and all of the context created in this thread, like when I post the death stats of these children, and @14thDoctor posts a laughing emoji.

1. Name them.

2. Are we talking about real genocide, the "exterminate an entire race of people" genocide you insist be the standard when the topic is Ukraine, or are we talking about the absurd "every act of wartime violence is genocide" definition you and Amaris love to use when the topic is Israel?

Meds.

Obviously I'm talking about you and Demiurge.

And yes, we're talking about "real" genocide, an actual extermination, the thing happening in Gaza but not happening in Ukraine. You support that, whatever pretexts you allow yourself.

5.3 million Palestinians, 20,000 deaths according to @Amaris ' likely overly inflated numbers since Oct 7

Either my math is bad, the Israelis are really bad at genocide or there is no genocide happening

I'm sorry Rick but math is not "fantasy", it's universal

Your numbers are wrong.

The population of Gaza is 2.2 million. The official number of dead is around 26,000 - consisting only of identifed deaths from violence. That doesn't include those under the rubble, otherwise missing, or those dead from disease or starvation. All in all, there's probably 2% of the population dead at this point.

Aid organisations suggest that as famine hits harder, that will accelerate and a quarter of the population would die within a year. And that's under the conditions that exist before UNRWA is defunded.

To support the policies causing this - primarily the restriction of aid but also the indiscriminate bombing - is to support genocide. There's no two ways about it.

I made a list!!

But seriously though, you're a delusional fuckstick.

From your own post that you linked to above:

You claim that Demiurge and I will accept "anything" Israel does in the name of "self defense" (which is a lie), while you yourself outright reject the premise of Israel being allowed to defend itself in any way at all, against an enemy that openly seeks to commit genocide against Israel. What do you think happens if the Israelis aren't permitted to take any sort of defensive action against Hamas, while also handing them control of the "borders, waters, and airspace?"

The only person I see here endorsing genocide is you.




Oh, but the last Israelis civilians to be murdered by Hamas can attempt to have them charged with war crimes. You're okay with that. What a relief.

There are 5.3 million Palestinians living in the Staye of Palestine according to the Palestinian bureau of statistics

https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/portals/_pcbs/PressRelease/Press_En_InterPopDay2022E.pdf

If you’re only including and referring to Gaza well then that makes your genocide argument even more flimsy and fallacious, and you’re already leaning on things that might happen or will perhaps maybe transpire. Not to mention i highly doubt the international community will let Israel commit such an atrocious act involving the elimination of 5.3 million people

The genocide argument is just flat out incorrect at the end of the day, fortunately

Oh, and as to where the funding should come to feed the Palestinian people:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/understanding-the-hamas-net-worth/ar-AA1ivwb7

Yasser Arafat's wife is also estimated to have a net worth in the billions of dollars.

Jeez, I wonder where all that money came from.

If they actually cared about their people, they could match the US contribution, the largest by far to UNRWA, by themselves - for the next 20 years. I've seen Haniyeh's net worth estimated not at $4 million but $4 billion according to multiple sources - so that would be 40 years.

You know, the elected government of Gaza.

How much you want to bet that isn't going to happen though.

So, it's Israel's fault. Got it.

It is Israel's fault, yes. Israel is an occupier state. Manifest Destiny, Lebensraum, colonial expansion, whatever you want to call it, yes, when you start to take the homes of people who were already living there, driving them out, and then bombing them as "animals," it is your fault. Yes, it is Israel's fault they are in the situation they're in, just like 9/11 was the fault of the United States and its foreign policy overseas. Empires that bomb others indiscriminately in the name of nationalism should not be surprised when bombs come flying back in their direction by a radicalized people who have watched their loved ones die at the hands of an occupier and oppressor.

If you don't understand that, then you don't understand US history and its role in oppression, because Israel's copying it.

What did the United States do to Saudi Arabia that justified all those Saudi men carrying out 9/11, you fucking lunatic?

I’ll grant you that US foreign policy has been a disaster since the end of WW2 and I’ll grant you that blowback is a real thing, but I won’t grant you that 9/11 is our fault or 10/7 is Israel’s fault. You’re making the case that the girl dressed in a mini skirt deserved to be raped.

No, because a woman in a mini skirt is simply existing when she is unjustly attacked. The United States foreign policy is brutal, bombing and murdering thousands of innocents every year. Israel has been bombing Gaza and the West Bank, and not just "Hamas" which has only existed since the 1980s, but also hospitals, schools, churches, mosques, homes, all in the name of "security" and "defending themselves," the same bullshit the US uses when it turns parts of the Middle East into smoking craters. People in the west often don't think about it because they've been conditioned to see brown people as "others," as "less civilized," and the end result is that somehow those people deserve to have their homes destroyed, fathers having their children blown to pieces because they were at school.

You have to know absolutely nothing about what goes on in the US or in the Middle East to believe the US or Israel has done nothing to end up where they are now. It would be an immensely privileged and ignorant take.

We wouldn’t leave Mecca, don’t you know?