Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

The girl in the mini skirt is a shitty neighbor who who gets drunk and starts shit with you and does shitty things too. Still doesn’t mean she deserved to get raped. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Cop: “Do you want to press charges, mam?”
Woman: “No, it’s my fault he hit me because I refused to suck his dick on demand.”
Amaris:: “that woman is a bitch who should be the one to go to jail !”

So you've changed the conditions.

Here's the thing, really awful and disconnected analogy aside, the wrong started with Israel taking people's land. You say "two wrongs don't make a right," and that's easy to say as the person whose wrongs are subsidized by a system that protects you and punishes anyone who is against that system. You can say "two wrongs don't make a right" while John Brown was leading his attack on Harper's Ferry. You can say "two wrongs don't make a right" when the brick was thrown at Stonewall to stop police from harassing and killing gay people. You can say "two wrongs don't make a right" when the Black Panthers were formed to stop the police from murdering innocent black men, women, and children in urban neighborhoods. You can say "two wrongs don't make a right" because you will never have to worry about your particular wrong being seen as an actual wrong, as you are on the white and "right" side of history according to the system that protects you.

It is your privilege that lets you say "two wrongs don't make a right" when the other "wrong" being committed is an oppressed group trying not to be extinguished.
That is your privilege, to look at the US colony of Israel, see their actions, look at the Palestinians fighting back just to stay alive, and saying "these are both wrong."

Violence isn't just the bombs being dropped, it is the system in place that keeps people down, keeps them quiet, keeps them terrified. That is what Israel has done to the Palestinian population for decades. It is what US slave owners did to black people for generations. You can be upset at the violence committed, but if you have any sense of self-awareness, any sense of the system in which you live which offers you so much privilege at so little cost to you, then you can, at the least, understand why these people do what they do, why it matters, and why saying "two wrongs don't make a right" is grossly biased in favor of the oppressive authority.

If you're going to be a fucking gobshite without listening to anything being said, at least stop jacking off to your fantasies in this thread.

Israel didn’t take people’s land, they won a war in 1948. There are consequences to losing wars. Part of those consequences are losing territory.

You contradict yourself in a single statement. You both claim Israel didn't take people's land, and that part of the consequences of losing a war is is losing territory. I can't explain the imperialism you support, I truly can't, because you don't even see it. It's perfectly normal to you, apparently, that a country just takes what land it wants in a war, justly or unjustly, against an actual military or just an oppressed people, and that's fair game. Again, easy to say when you're part of the system that has benefited the most from those wars.

So I'll leave you with this.

There’s a difference between conquering and stealing. When the government invokes eminent domain, that’s stealing, especially if you’re not compensated for that land. When there’s a war that is started by an aggressor and they lose that war and territory is taken, that’s land that is conquered. You should probably read up on the non aggression principle.

“200 lives for 200 lives.”

Notwithstanding the fact that conquering territory is completely illegitimate, that isn't how the Israelis see it at all. If it were, things would be much better. The occupied territories would be part of the Israeli state and the people there would be able to press for their rights under Israeli law. (Palestinians would be a majority.)

Instead, Israel views the West Bank and Gaza as external entities. They progressively encroach on the land, stealing the best parts, driving the inhabitants away and instituting a system of apartheid. And unfortunately such oppression has its consequences.

The ICJ have disagreed with you, you know. They consider it "plausible" and that at the very least, Palestinians face a "clear risk".

Your argument boils down to incredulity mixed with the bizarre assertion that we can't recognise it until it's complete. No, the full consequence is not yet realised - but if you are killing them at a rate that has few precedents and in the process of further depriving them the means of life, you're doing a genocide.

I mean, it's even on CNN now.

Oh, and for Demiurge, since he has displayed a newfound interest in Irish history and politics (or at least Wikipedia articles on the subject):

Ireland is increasing aid to UNRWA (good).
Ireland is considering joining the South African case in the ICJ - following public pressure (good).
The Irish PM will travel to the US on St. Patrick's Day to meet Genocide Joe, despite public outcry (bad).
We still have an Israeli Ambassador in Dublin, and her long overdue one-way trip to the airport is delayed. (bad).

We're also not threatening to bomb anyone in the name of de-escalation unfortunately. Sorry about that.

Prior to 1948, there were various Aliyah’s whereby Jewish people from all over purchased land from Arabs. This occurred during the rule of the Ottoman Empire and later Mandatory Palestine. Nobody was being conquered. These were legitimate land transactions.

Funny how as soon as the mandate was over the surrounding Arab countries thought it would be a great idea to start a war with the nascent country of Israel. Again, actions like those have consequences. This all could have been avoided. To hold the Arabs and the Palestinians harmless is to greatly distort the historical record.

We? You mean the government of Ireland, Ricky. You aren't Ireland, as you've said to me multiple times. How much are you kicking in? LOL.

And when do you think the billionaire leaders of Hamas are going to do their part with the aid money they already stole? They certainly didn't become billionaires by working.

As to the threat of bombing to de-escalate, that's not the purpose of Biden's response, you just hate it when the US responds to the 300 attacks that have occurred against it.

But the terrorists that launched 150 of those attacks, including the one that killed the 3 US service men in Jordan, have already said that they won't attack the US any more.

Jeez, I wonder why.

As to Ireland increasing it's funding, if you say so, I can't find any news stories to that effect. But better get on it - Ireland's aid in 2022 was $10 million.

Oh, and btw, the US is paid up. It's 'suspension' is a mere $300,000 of the $334 million the US pays to UNRWA. The review process is expected to take a couple of weeks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/us/politics/aid-gaza-israel.html

But oh no, ITS GENOCIDE.

"Pro-Palestinian" protestors (lol) almost caused a national security incident this week, rushing Canada's Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/neveragainlive1/status/1752414382640832926

These Hamas fuckers are even bringing political discourse to a new low in Canada.

And if the US is planning on striking in Iran proper, who clearly is the benefactor of these proxy groups launching all these attacks on the US and international shipping, they could do a lot worse than a specific target: Hit Iran's done factories.

This would greatly reduce their ability to support these proxies, AND help cut off Iran's logistic supply to Russia that it is using to kill Ukrainians.

Will they? Not sure. Perhaps they will weigh the political ramifications and decide it wouldn't be prudent. Biden and his top military brass certainly have more information than I do.

But if they want to make a real impact, that would be a very good way to do it.

Rick: I'd have supported bombing Germany to stop the Holocaust and save civilians!

Also Rick: I'm against bombing Iran to stop Russians drone attacks on civilian targets in Ukraine!

A bomb was found next to the Israeli embassy in Sweden, and a Swedish bomb squad has successfully disarmed it.

That is the 6th attack of some type against an Israeli embassy since the October 7th massacre kicked off the current war in Gaza.

https://www.jns.org/suspicious-object-found-near-israel-embassy-in-sweden/

I was going to say, what in the actual fuck

@Amaris is literally a terrorist intern now

Supplies are not getting through because Hamas steals them.

Even were that so, it is well documented that the volume of aid being allowed in by the IDF is a fraction of what is needed.

If we try and air drop supplies and one of of our men get shot down then the war machine is going to push Biden to go in. You and I both don’t want that. Israel’s neighbors aren’t going to help us except maybe Jordon so I don’t really see a good solution. Bibi’s not going to back down either and we have boots on the ground in Yemen and that’s not good .

Does the Geneva convention require the more powerful side to help supply the other sides military? Are opponents in a war obligated to provide aid to "civilians" on the other side even knowing that the other sides military is stealing most if not all of it? Would you personally donate $20 to feed starving kids in Gaza if you knew $19 was actually going to fund Netanyahu's new vacation home?

The aid is not being supplied by Israel. It is being provided by others, but Israel insists on inspecting it and controlling what gets in.

The amount they let in is insufficient as a matter of policy, and of course that is against the Geneva Conventions.

You're literally describing collective punishment - restricting aid to everyone on the grounds that doing so also hurts Hamas.

Okay, allow me to rephrase. During a war, does the Geneva convention require one military to allow third parties to resupply the opposing military?

If there was some way to help the civilians of Gaza without helping Hamas, I'd be very much in favour of it. But Hamas works very hard to make sure that's not possible, and civilians suffer as a result.

Why wouldn’t Israel inspect the supplies, what if ammunition and weapons are being smuggled in?

Inspection is not the problem. The volume they allow in is.

Serious question: If Israel is restricting aid that severely, and they've been doing it for so long, how come so many Gazans are still alive? How many days can a person live without water? Without food? I've been seeing articles about food and water shortages since at least mid-October.

Because some food was being allowed in and there were some supplies. The situation is somewhat better in the south. But a lot of people have been eating one meal a day, drinking dirty water (of which there is plenty), eating animal feed and eating things like grass as per the CNN story. People can survive for a long time being malnourished, but it catches up eventually.

There's lots of material online about this if you care to look.

And of course, COGAT (the Israeli agency responsible) just denies there's any issue citing that Arabs are hoarders.

That type of shit is bound to happen during a war, have you read about our civil war?