Progressive messaging in media.

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Diacanu, Oct 7, 2022.

  1. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    'Cashing in' is common, but different interpretations on original works are very often worth it. Do you object to all remakes and adaptations?

    I mean, I have objections to some of this stuff, as I explained in Media Central. When Bridgerton casts black actors as an attempt to portray a colour-blind version of the Georgian Era, that's a problem - since it does serious damage to historical understanding of that period of history and presents the racial differences of the time as incidental.
    But Snow White? That's a German/Nordic fairy tale which presumably by its very nature has undergone a thousand different revisions and retellings. The end result might be a bit stupid or it might be unintentionally ironic, but I don't see a reason to get worked up about it as you are. Other than just racism.
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  2. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    I’ve been reading some historical documents lately … , I’m certain these “historical documents” have been unearthed since Bridgerton first aired, but apparently even then, Charlotte (the German heiress served up to be queen for a nutcase) had been reported to be “dark skinned”. Of course, I doubt very few people read those accounts when they were available, as I said years ago, it’s just a stupid romance novel and anyone who takes that part of the story as factual is a poor reader.

    For the same reasons quibbling about a black Snow White, quibbling about specifics of characters in “historical romance “ novels is just cheating themselves out of a romantic story.

    German fairy tales were not meant to be happy - HEY, you’re the one that wants to be historically accurate!!! - were not meant for little girls to dream of being a princess. They were meant to teach children to hate the next woman in their father’s lives after the mother dies.
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  3. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    jsut so we're clear, this person is not white enough by FF (and it seems, UA's) standards to play a character from the southwestern most tip of Germany... hardly a race swap

    but according to them, that 1/4 Latina factor is simply not pure enough an arayan (which is even funnier if you know the full geography/roots that should cover)

    [​IMG]


    there're a number of portraits of her looking as pasty as anybody from that era with little in the bone structure to indicate african heritage.

    otoh, she was from that same SW corner of what's now Germany (the borders we know have only existed since about 1850) as Snow White which would imply frequent contact with French, Swiss, and Italian courtiers and opening the possibility of darker hair and deeper complexion by her forebears...
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  4. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    It’s probable the painters were instructed to paint her to be more English looking.
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  5. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Without remaking Shakespeare, you don't get "Tromeo & Juliet".
    Without "Tromeo & Juliet" James Gunn probably doesn't get discovered, then no Guardians, no Suicide Squad 2, no post-Snyder-DCU...

    Hulk is a mashup of Frankenstein, Wolf-Man, and Jekyll-Hyde.
    Dr. Banner's name is a rip of Hugo Danner.
    Captain America's origin swipes bits of Hugo Danner.
    Hugo Danner is a sci-fi retooling of Hercules.
    Thor is Viking Hercules.

    I could go on.
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  6. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    goes without saying, along with male and female makeup trends of the time (tans, let alone swarthiness, were considered a sign of poverty) which would've seen her foundation being paler than the average gothgirl.

    Doesn't really show in the facial features or shapes though.

    Not entirely unlikely though, that there might be a Moor or two in her family history given Spain's influence and the eventual Hapsburg connections.
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  7. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    LOL
    don't even get me started on marvel thor vs mythical thor...

    they don't even keep the family connections right.
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  8. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Existing IP comes with a lot of commercial advantages, and original IP is extremely risky. :clyde:
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  9. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Wes Craven took Freddy/Nightmare everywhere before New Line bit the hook.
    New Line was a teeny company founded out of the trunk of Bob Shaye's car, and they were desperate for IP, and Nightmare could be shot for lunch money.
    Lotta stories like that.
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  10. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Yeah, the benefit of original IP is that if it works out the payoff can be much larger.

    In my career I've worked on a bunch of licensed projects and some original IPs, and from a creative perspective original IP can be far more fun, but from a paying the mortgage perspective give me an established IP any day.
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  11. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Smarter people have already been floating that "accurate to source is racist," and like you it's not growing more clever with age.

    What's next, another variation on "excessive whiteness is a problem to be 'corrected'"?

    :dayton:
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  12. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Oh , god. :facepalm:

    Let me guess, another douchebag with viking tattoos.
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  13. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    no... it's your concern with her being insufficiently caucasian enough... nice try though
    considering this is coming from a guy with a shaved head and a duck dynasty beard I have to ask...
    da fuq are you on about here?

    do you know anything about Norse mythology or just flinging shit and seeing what'll stick?

    Doesn't matter.. you'll just make shit up with a bunch of colourful attempts at a personal attack and never come to a point other than the one atop your head
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  14. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    What’s the quote? Something like:

    There are only three original stories: Man v Man, Man v Nature, Man v Himself. Everything else is just derivatives.
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  15. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    it's been updated:


    • Character vs character.
    • Character vs society.
    • Character vs nature.
    • Character vs technology.
    • Character vs fate.
    • Character vs supernatural.
    • Character vs self.
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  16. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Last night I lived through the story of character vs $0.50 hot wings

    Barely made it out alive though
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2024
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  17. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    Implicit in those are other stories, like society vs. nature, technology vs. supernatural etc., etc.
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  18. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Not as riveting as Character vs Taco Bell.
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  19. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Risk-aversion. Same reason that Doubleday would rather publish a new John Grisham novel than an equally good book by somebody who isn't world-famous.

    Annnnnnd here we go.

    Was Alan Dean Foster shitting on Star Wars when he wrote the novelization of A New Hope?

    Were Stephen Sondheim and Leonard Bernstein shitting on Shakespeare when they adapted Romeo & Juliet into West Side Story?

    Or is that level of disgust reserved for ... um ... certain other situations that I'm certain have absolutely nothing to do with the lead actress' race, nothing at all, nosiree?
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  20. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    (Predicting UA's rebuttal)
    Fuuuuck yoouuu!!! Fuck, fuck, fuck!! Cock cock, cock!! Coooooooooock!!!!!
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  21. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    That is also the same phrase he uses during premature ejaculation with @Jenee
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  22. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    I'm on about yet another douchebag decorating himself and pretending it's a personality.

    Keep beating that "criticizing race swaps is racist! :shakefist: " drum. I'm sure someone will give a shit eventually.
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  23. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    False comparisons.

    :zzz:
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  24. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    The criticism doesn't have to be racist, but 99.9% of the time that's how it ends up. Probably just a coincidence. :bergman:
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  25. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    I'm still trying to figure out the "race swap" here in the first place. Genetically speaking she's whiter than I am.
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  26. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    It’s telling that merely casting a darker skinned person in a role that was previously played by a lighter skinned person is ‘intentionally shitting on’ fans of the former version.

    That is a pretty visceral reaction.
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  27. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    also trying to figure out where mr rugged individualist is getting "I'm on about yet another douchebag decorating himself and pretending it's a personality." other than in a mirror?

    there ain't much aggrandizing in what I do and frankly the biggest personal qualities one can bring to it are senses of empathy and humility.
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  28. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Funny thing: Chani, Paul's wife in "Dune", looks like Rachel Zegler in the novel.
    In the new movie, she's Zendaya.
    Why aren't CHUDs screaming about that?
    Because "Dune" is too geeky for hate-tube's meathead audience.
    That they're screaming about literal fucking fairy tales instead tells you everything.
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  29. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    All I know is that lkewis black guy needs to be cancelled and played by a black guy because CHUDs.
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  30. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    IMG_5329.jpeg
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