296 people unable to attend the NRA Annual Meeting

Believe it or not, not everyone dies as soon as they're shot. Plenty of them die en route to the hospital or at the hospital.

And here is his official cause of death.

Like I said, I included all gunshot deaths I could find. If I hadn't, I would have been accused of cherry-picking the data.

Do those places have the kind of racial diversity we do?

Do they have the kind of income inequality we do?

Do they have a robust social welfare program?

Do they have have a war on drugs?

What about their healthcare systems, including mental health?



Yes there are things that can be done, but they aren't as easy and feel good as just banning guns so they get lost in these useless discussions, which is why I avoid them.

Here's a thought: If guns don't kill people, people kill people (to which I agree), let's license the people.

Never mind this diddly-shit "permit" business, which varies from state to state and weapon class to weapon class. Let's require every state to maintain a statewide database of gun owners, complete with photo ID. (This may or may not be tied into a national database, depending on its level of effectiveness.)

Every time you buy a weapon, it's entered into the database next to your name, just like every time you buy a vehicle for use on public roads. That database can be connected with the DMV database, so that The Authorities can know in an instant what guns you own, and if you happen to be involved in a traffic stop and there's a weapon in your car that's not in the database, you're in deep shit.

That won't affect the guns you keep in the house at all.

No? Makes you uncomfortable? I'm not crazy about the idea, either - the expense to the taxpayer and all - but as long as you let the NRA dictate terms (and, yes, I know, very few members of Gunforge are NRA members, which makes it even sadder that you let them speak for you) and balk at any change to the status quo, this kind of thing is not beyond the realm of the possible.

Maybe if gun owners stopped merely saying "Let's enforce the laws we already have" and took action to that effect, it might be seen as a positive sign that you're not all Wayne La Pierre.

But he's the image you've allowed to represent you to the general public, and no one can change that but you.

Then it would really help if the likes of Zombie, Black Dove, et al. would stop chanting the "You just want to take away all our guns!!11!" line in every discussion. They're the only ones here saying it, and they only keep repeating it here because they don't have the cojones to say it to Barbara Boxer.

Gun owners are not well served by the minority of you who think they can drown out discussion by yelling really loud.

So what is Gunforge doing - other than posting about it - to ensure enforcement of existing laws?

Had I left them off, I would have been equally derided. I chose to go for more inclusive rather than less inclusive. We can see the bigger picture that way, and whether or not (as some of Gunforge claims) the self-defense and gang-related shootings outweigh the accidents, suicides, and homicides.

In that case, I encourage you to add them to this thread. I no doubt missed quite a few people, and by contributing you could help the list to be more precise.

Yes, good job. Cite Charles Manson as a gun owner. That will surely make people more receptive towards fewer gun control measures.

Fuck all this pussyfooting.

What you want won't work for the thing you say you want it for.

So either you're fucking stupid, or you want it for something else and you're fucking lying.

How would these people's names and picture in a database have made any difference in what happened to them?

How would that 4 year old be alive today if Daddy was listed in a registry?

I really don't see it.

Mandatory safety classes, for one thing, may have helped. It won't stop every dumbass, but it would help. I find it tragic that, according to the report, this was the second accidental shooting in that particular area that week. The other victim, as I previously reported, was a nine-year-old who was accidentally shot while her mother's boyfriend was practicing holstering and unholstering his firearm. Again, safety classes would have helped more than a registry. But that doesn't remove the helpfulness a registry would provide. A registry isn't exactly designed to stop accidents, but would help in the prevention or investigation of other types of incidents.

Right on.

Oh, bullshit Anc. What matters is whether or not CRIME is similar, for whatever reason that may be. And yes, there are plenty of places where crime is similar that has far less murders per capita, and you know it. The UK the crime numbers are near identical when it comes to violent crime - except people don't get killed, because the crime isn't being committed with weapons that are as lethal as guns.

Another bullshit answer.

Guns aren't going to be banned in toto in this country. You know it, I know it.

But you can stop the deception just because you are part of the gun culture - guns lead to more deaths.

Until you guys stop lying to yourself about this extremely basic fact, it isn't going to get any better.

It isn't the fact it's a black guy. It isn't the fact that there's poor people. It sure as fuck isn't mental health - every place has nut jobs, and the only way you can get rid of that is throwing every single right you have out the window and have a mandatory counselling session weekly.

The fact is that when our criminals and nutjobs express their violence, they do so more efficiently than others.

Because they have better weapons.

Gun control in cities where you can drive 20 mins to circumvent the laws don't work.

Gun control in nations does work, as can be seen by the low violent death rates of almost every civilized nation in the world - except ours.

Like Ancalagon pointed out, there are a lot of other factors that could be contributing to that as well. Given that a lot of these factors could be done without killing people's individual freedoms, I'd rather try those first.

Oh boy, I can get stabbed instead of shot. I'll take my chances with the guns thank you very much.

The last time that government could effectively investigate gun trafficking over 50% of guns used in crimes that were sold illegally could be traced back to less than 1% of the gun sellers.

Since then, the NRA through its lobbying arm and Congressional cronies has blocked scientific research into gun violence, has blocked the ATF from even having an actin director (this for the last 6 years), has frozen the number of ATF agents for 30 years while the number of guns has skyrocketed, has stopped requirements for gun dealers to report inventories, has stopped gun dealers, even ones suspected of crimes, to be inventoried no more than once a year, and the average inventory because of defunding and obstruction of the agency is done once every 17 years, ended oversight of used firearm sales, and basically done everything they could to make sure current firearrms laws CAN'T BE ENFORCED. The NRA of course 'reviewed' the language of these bills - in other words, wrote the laws themselves.

So don't give me this BS that 'we need to enforce current laws' because the NRA sure as fuck tries to block that with every fiber of their being.

Once again, the 'I don't understand physics' crowd speaks up.

There's a reasons armies stopped fighting their wars with swords, let alone switchblades. Guns are a bit more ouchy.

Which is why you are far more likely to survive a knife attack than a gun attack.

I know, I know, it's just a tool.

The physical properties of said tool are irrelevant, as I've heard over and over and over again.

Dude, just admit it -- you want fascism. You want a tiny elite of insanely well-armed elites dictating to the rest of the people. Just admit it. You'll feel better if you just come right out with it.

Same here.

And of course he isn't gonna fuckin' do that. None of them that want that are gonna come out and say that's what they want, because they can't. Not while they wear the "liberal" hat, they can't. Not while they wear the "progressive" hat, they can't.

Because there's not the slightest iota of a gram of a grain of a notion of "liberating" anybody to their "liberalism.

There's not the slightest iota of a gram of a grain of "progress" to their notion of "progressivism."

They don't want to fucking free anybody. They don't want to bring real progress to fucking anybody.

They want the individual chained up, bound up and shut up.

That's why they're so yowly screechy screamy drooly at the mouth about getting guns away from individuals. Because unarmed individuals are easier to subjugate.

That's how we know the labels "liberal" and "progressive" are fucking lies.

I for one have no desire to ensure enforcement of existing laws. I actually believe that an armed society is a polite society, so get some training and buy/carry whatever you want.

Someday I will even be able to stop people from DYING!!!

Well, according to the retconned version of WF history, fewer than five people here were for the invasion of Iraq. Everyone else just knew the intel was faked.

So a lot of minds changed, but not because of the lists. However, am I allowed to say I received PMs from a few folks here and on TBBS who lost family members and appreciated the memorials?

Cant speak for anyone else, but I've been contacting my legislators. How about you?[/quote]

Not a member of Gunforge. Any action I take is seen as innately hostile, even mentioning Sarah Palin's presence at the NRA meeting.

Okay, that's two votes for "doing something." Then there's this:

Only people like you would find that scary. And I'll note that children are once again being used as a shield to push morality.

Well speak of the devil....here are two people who take great comfort in knowing "crime is crime" regardless of weapons used.


http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...ms-still-hospitalized-no-arrests?v=1367804385


Riverwalk mugging victims still hospitalized; no arrests
By Wesley Brown
Staff Writer
Sunday, May 5, 2013 10:51 PM
Last updated Monday, May 6, 2013 1:39 AM


Follow Crime & courts
A pair of armed robbers prowling Riverwalk Augusta with a metal club or bat Friday fractured an Edgefield, S.C., man’s skull to the point that his brain began to bleed, according to a police report released Sunday.


RELATED STORIES

Couple attacked on Riverwalk Augusta
Man suffers concussion, loses car in attack

Wesley L. Spires, 27, was admitted to University Hospital about 11:20 p.m. Friday, after he drove himself and Ashley E. Solesbee, 25, of North Augusta, to the medical facility in search of care. Each was suffering from several facial fractures and head wounds. Spires also had a broken hand, according to an incident report from the Richmond County Sheriff’s Office.
The injuries came at the hands of two armed robbers who approached the couple and demanded money about 11 p.m. Friday, as the South Carolina residents were sitting on a park bench behind Fort Discovery at the riverwalk.
When Spires and Solesbee did not produce any money, the muggers started hitting them with a bat or pipe, then took their cell phones and ran away toward Sixth Street.
The suspects are described as two tall, slim black males with short dreadlocks who were wearing black clothing and saggy pants.
Richmond County investigators remain tight-lipped about the assault, only confirming on Sunday that it is not gang-related.
“We have investigators and deputies out working the streets to try and solve the case,” said Sgt. Michael McDaniel, of the Richmond County Sheriff’s Office.
The team of lawmen on the street includes an Aiken County sheriff’s deputy who was seen conducting a perimeter check of Solesbee’s home Sunday night about 9 p.m.
Rebecca Sylvester, a spokeswoman at University Hospital, said Solesbee, an employee of the Aiken County school system, was in good condition Sunday.
A condition update on Spires, who was listed in critical condition Friday, could not be obtained Sunday.
The assault Friday came almost 12 hours after Vincente D. Mora, 29, of Beech Island, was robbed of a $400 cell phone, $40 in cash and a 2002 Hyundai four-door sedan after being struck in the head as he was leaving Riverfront Pub on Broad Street. The stolen car had a South Carolina tag, 1909FR.

^^^

Is there a point to that story? Is it intended to counter the argument that guns are more lethal? Because it doesn't.

- Demiurge

Here's your less than 1%.
And you want the government keeping track of guns and their owners for millions of people? How's that working out so far?

Hilarious...yet not very accurate. The demographic represented as "threats" do not fit reality. But then again depicting reality would not fit the liberal narrative, so let's make fun of middle aged and elderly white gun owners, because they account for well over five percent of the violent gun deaths here in my town.
Your results may vary, however.

You didn't follow my point at all, did you?

They beat the hell out of that man with malicious intent. And he's alive.

What if they unloaded a full clip from a handgun in him? Much better chance he'd be dead.

You can normalize the signal to noise ratio and look at the weapons used. FBI criminologists have done this.

Unsurprisingly, they found that guns are a more lethal instrument than a club.

You were in the military. You know this is true.

It's amazing that the gun nuts keep saying the only weapon they can use for self defense is a gun, because of how effective a weapon it is, then argue over and over again that guns aren't as dangerous as a rock.

Can't have it both ways guys. Stupid of you to try.