A Chart to Help Those on the Fence About Punching Nazis

Indeed,for America's hate-on of Communists, I'm fairly sure if there was any truth to Dinner's claim, our history classes would've been on that like white on rice.

So are you denying the street battles happened? There is a massive amount of evidence that they indeed did.

Nobody's denying the street battles between Nazi's and Communists, but that's not the biggest factor as to why Hitler rose to power. Besides, it was the Nazis who started these fights.

https://libcom.org/history/street-politics-hamburg-1932-3

The author seems overly sympatgetic to the communists in some passages but it does give a decent account of political street violence in Hamburg in the early 1930's. You will notice the communists formed their violent street brigades years before the SA was formed. Both groups were violent thugs who used political violence as a tool but the communists pioneered "street action" as a political weapon and that gave the Nazis an excuse for their own political violence (which they were itching to do anyway).

In short, the whole "argument" you hear from Black Bloc/Antifa that violence is necessary to prevent the rise of a new Hitler is self serving unhistorical bull shit because violence on the part of the communists is what gave the Nazis their justification and their window of opportunity to rise as a political organization. A lot of regular people got tired of having their shops and taverns vandalized or even burned down by the communists and no one liked the communist thugs who beat up or killed anyone who displeased them and this gave the Nazis their excuse that they were just supposedly protecting the regular people against the would be communist revolutionaries. The historical record is pretty clear that far from stopping the Naxis the political violence as a tactic made the Nazis more power and gave them an excuse for their own violence so political violence by the far left actually backfired.

Don't fight Nazis, they win.
Fight Nazis, they win.

Geez, how did we ever win WWII with that pesky paradox in place?

http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-866793.html

Hell, most of the street violence and even the organizational structure of the SA was completely copied from as well as inspired by communist street violence gangs. Far from defeating or detering Nazi street violence the communists became the explicit model the Nazis copied.

So, yes, political violence was tried against the Nazis and it all fucking backfired and just made the Nazis stronger. It is a failed policy and Black Bloc/Antifa is making the exact same mistake again.

wgat language is tgis

Naxis, a taxi service for Nazis. They run over protesters so you don't have to.

One can indeed oppose groups in lots of ways without resorting to political violence. Also the Nazis, such as they are, will never win in the US.

Pokitical, it's politics for Pokemon. Come on guys, we can create a whole new language from Dinner's posts.

Real people discuss issues while people with nothing to add whine about typos. Sadly, real discussion hasn't been very common around here for several years now.

I didn't, you dumb shit. I disagreed over the hypocrisy of this statement - "Hopefully these nazis are held under the same amount of surveillance and scrutiny that we currently hold Muslims to, am I right?"

This is true. I specifically remember The World at War covering this, along with pointing out some of the more socialist aspects of the Nazis, like how they literally had soup lines, and would demand that the more well-off people not sit separately from the poor.

What, you mean like the Japanese when it comes to Nanking and so many other things?

I'm just creating a dictionary so we can all understand your language. It's like that scene in Dances With Wolves where John Dunbar is talking with Kicking Bird and he is trying to figure what buffalo is in Lakota.

Except, of course, for that fire at the Reichstag, which was blamed on a communist and was used as evidence by the Nazis that communists were plotting against the German government, and to convince President Hindenburg to suspend civil liberties, allowing the Nazis to arrest all the communist parliamentary delegates, so they could fill all of their seats and give their party a solid majority. You know, the thing that actually led to Hitler becoming a dictator. The Nazis' attitude toward communists was also why it was such a shock to the rest of the world when Hitler and Stalin signed a non-aggression pact.

That thing where you post links that don't say what you pretend they say? You're doing it again. This one, for instance, says Nazis beat up Communists, and that Nazis copied Communists in creating a political organisation outside of parliamentary parties. It does not say that Communists were starting street violence.

They are long but I am confident you can read them as they do indeed say much of what they say. If you had bothered to read them you would know that already.

I read that last night and it says that the Nazi's started the violence just like I sad up thread.

I'm confused. Are you saying that the fact the Japanese were complete fucktards in China during WWII is in fact somewhat in dispute?

Oh. Is it me or didn't a Nazi just run over a crowd of people and kill a girl? That gets called terrorism when it happens in Europe, doesn't it?

Where's the hypocrisy exactly?

It's only a paradox if you (deliberately?) conflate fighting a war with street fighting, and winning[1] a war with winning[2] the power needed to wage a war in the first place.

Fight them in the streets without the law backing you and they win[2]. Don't fight them outside the law (and enforce the law upon them!) and they don't.

If they win[2], then you fight a war and have to win[1]. This usually means massive loss of life.

Obviously the better goal is to prevent them winning[2], and that means not fighting anyone unless they [singular] try to fight you first. Physically.

It was plausible at the time that the communists set fire to the Reichstag. If the neo-Nazis get a toehold in government, you can bet there will be a terrorist attack that gets blamed on antifa, and it will be plausible at the time, and then the Nazis win[2]. Preemptively punching them doesn't prevent them from getting a toehold in government, and at worst accelerates that because white law-and-order voters exist in droves. You know what does stop them? Outreach, EXIT-style programs, a vocal defense of liberty and (little-L) liberal government and society, and counter-propaganda, not to try to convince them, but to convince the masses so that the neo-Nazis never win elections.

Some people believed it, but not because Communists had ever set fire to anything before, but because propaganda had created a false threat from the left even while actual Nazis were elected to the highest offices in the land.

Nazis would *lie* to gain power?! I'm shocked! SHOCKED, I say!

But seriously, look at the smear campaign they launched against Jews. I'm 100 percent sure they weren't running around the streets causing trouble. What reason would people have to believe that they were responsible for post-war Germany?

wait i forget nazis are the bad guys right

No one said they did. What I did say is tgat the tactics currently being retried by Black Bloc/Antifa were used in the past vs the real Nazis and only backfired and made things worse so they are unlikely to be good tactics.

That isn't a complicated statement, it was a total of two sentences, so I am not sure why left forge has such difficulty understanding it. Willful ignorance and a desire to try to miss the point? Or maybe the anwser is simpler; they just don't read what other people actually wrote and just want to assume without ever knowing. Kind of like K. not reading the paragraph about the communist party of Germany being the model used to create the SA.

I don't read your posts because you and E.L. James evidently share the same proofreader.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We will record you as being in the "didn't bother to read and so has no idea what she is arguing against" collumn.

Only on days that end in Y.

Sonntag, Montag, Dienstag, Mittwoch, Donnerstag, Freitag, Samstag

....


Gott im himmel!

No, are you really that daft?

How do you feel about Muslims being under extra surveillance?

Except that you said that the communists had nothing to do with Hitler's rise to power, and they very much did, even if they didn't actually start the fire. Nice try at moving the goalpost, though.